Tobi ≠ Obito: The Long Awaited Thread

[Florox]

Hmmm, I took a full deep breath before starting to do this, as it's going to be the most popular thread of all times. There has been times when I have gotten angry about Tobi and Obito, and there has been times when I have laughed. This theory has been in an ongoing debate, to prove it's veracity. For eons I have been posting my ideas and point, but it seems it was all obsolete thanks to the majority of people who try to find every inch of assumptions to prove something. It's a cliche; I prove one complete thread wrong, and after one day, a new one emerges.

They state that they know why Tobi is Obito, that they have new information, and it's always the same darn thing. For a while, I thought people couldn't be that stupid, and they were probably were doing that to tease or to just not lose; I was sadly wrong. Now, I will bring you a recollection of proof, and better assumptions so people can get finally over the Tobi = Obito thing

Disclaimer: I will use a lot of common sense here. What do I mean by that? Well, instead of going for plausible, I will go likelyness, which is what everyone should do when reviewing a theory. I'll explain myself: If I theorized that Sasuke screwed a cow, before the chunnin exams, to get a Sharingan, is that likely? No. is it plausible? Yes. Nevertheless, it's stupid. So please, don't see anything here as "it could happen or not", but it's likelyhood. Allright, with that going I'm also going to let you know that, I'm going to avoid puting pictures because this is a big thread. Also, its because I think I don't need it, but just in case, I'll try to give chapter numbers, 'kay?

Oh and, please try to see this as a if you were the writer of the story, or try having in mind story making techniques, 'cause I do, and it will help you see everything better. Also, I'm going to start from weak theory to strong.


On to it!

Tobi ≠ Obito

Haircolor/Shape does not matter

It really doesn't. If it would, then Naruto would be Obito, Yahiko, Pein and Yondaime at the same time. We know that they're not.

Tobi is a good boy, Obito is a moron.

This has been stated many times before, and Tobi's personality is nothing like Obito's. Simply saying he's good is not proving anything. Tobi is a good boy in terms that he's a joke-around character, Obito is completely like Naruto, and we all know Naruto isn't like Tobi. Naruto/Obito tend to look for willingness, leadership, friendship, etc. Tobi is arrogant, and just likes to piss people off.

Tobi is Madara

In the manga, we read something along these lines :" My power... Uchiha Madara's power.." Truth is, this was a misleading translation. In the japanese manga, Tobi introduced himself as :"Kono Uchiha Madara", which is an arrogant way of introducing yourself. Basically, there is no direct translation, and that's why the aforementioned line was chosen. Doesn't imply that he's maybe not Madara, it's just the translator's way of putting it. You guys should google Naruto translation, for the specific chapter, and read the diferences in words, and the similarities in the context. So basically, he states that he's Madara. Zabuza also introduced himself like this, does this not make him Zabuza?

Obito is crushed by a million rocks

You guys might come up with any jutsu you want, but Obito's body is completely destroyed by all the rocks. The reason because Obito didn't give Kakashi the crushed eye, is because it did not work and was useless. Destroyed. Shortly after that, even tons of rocks fell on him, destroying the body. Please don't come with :"omg but its a shonen manga lol he could survive lol" because it's obvious that he did not. Tons of rocks kill people also, he was already about to die because of the smaller rocks, why on earth wouldn't he die from all the other ones?

With that said, Obito's body was completely rendered useless. Which brings me to my next point...

Zetsu did not find him

You might believe this, but if Zetsu really needed a body, he would look for other dead Uchiha bodies on the battleground. With that said, he's not going start looking in a bunch of rocks hoping to find Uchiha, and then pick a weak completely crushed one, instead of other almost complete ones on the battlefield. You might say he bumped into him by coincidence.....what? How can you bump into a body totally crushed by tons of rocks? In my opinion, I think that's hilarious. Did he start looking inside the rocks to see if he found an Uchiha? Right.

Pein did not create a 30% Clone of Obito

I find this funny too, because people forget the fact that the Justu makes clones, it does not regenerate! If he made a clone of Obito, then it would be a crushed-with-rocks useless body. He needs to make clones of alive working ninjas, not dead useless bodies. I think 30% chakra from a dead body is nothing, because it's dead. And even if that was done, you need the first body controlling the clone, because if you guys noticed, Kisame and Itachi were sitting down controlling their clones somwhere else. A dead body controlling a live one? Please.

And before you guys say anything about bodies preserving chakra, the bodies do not preserve chakra, they preserve special traits like the Iron Sand.

Tobi is NOT a part of Pein

Many people use this to make up an excuse for Tobi's body to come back from the dead. If Tobi was a part of Pein, then Tobi wouldn't be commanding his ass everywhere. Pein could "poof" him back, just like he does with all his other bodies. Not only that, but we saw that Tobi has a Sharingan, not the Rin'negan which seems always activated on every body.

I know I know, Tobi's hiding the Rin'negan in his other eye socket. As if. If the above paragraph doesn't convince you, then this might. Rin'negan given to other bodies are used for fighting because they can all have the same view so they don't get hit. What use has Tobi for the Rin'negan if it's covered, and his bodies aren't with him? None, which means he does not have a Rin'negan.


Obito is a --supporting-- character.

Many people think Obito has some sort of celestial importance; he doesn't. Actually, Kakashi Gaiden was just a mere story for the fans, and Obito was a supporting character. The story was about how Kakashi got his Sharingan, and also, to see how arrogant kakashi was, and how he learned that teamwork is always better, which is a very important teaching he gave Team 7. It was just another corny-friendship story that Kishimoto made. Tell me what Naruto fight doesn't end with "friendhsip. Come on.

It was all just a peek into Kakashi's world

Obito has a 2 Tomoe Sharingan; Tobi/Madara has 3 Tomoes

If you notice right, he has a three tomoe Sharingan; Obito only had a two tomoe. Any Sharingan mode is aquired by emotion, but since Tobi stated that he needs the Kyubbi, it means he cannot evolve his Sharingan, by emtion nor training, in other words, the normal way. That's saying that even if he used Obito's eyes, he couldn't have evolved them since he needs the Kyubbi, and we noticed that he has a three tomoe.

No Edo tensei, No Chiyo-Baa

Orochimaru did not use Edo Tensei on Obito. This automatically brings up the Zetsu paradox :" Why and how on earth would Orochimaru find a crushed body under a million rocks?" He really had no reason to be looking in a bunch of rocks for a an Uchiha body, or for any body at all. Or to be in the Grass Country. We know that he wanted a Sharingan, so if he would've actually found that body, he woud've taken his Sharingan. Of course this is all omiting the fact that Obito's remaining eye was completely crushed.

Besides, what good is it to him a completely crushed body. The first Hokages died, but it is assumeable that their bodie were still intact, especially Yondaime's. Now moving onto other techniques such as Chiyo-Baa's revivng technique. This techinique was made up by Chiyo and it is only used by her because none other in the Narutoverse knows how to do it. Kakuzu is a different story, and he used his own jutsu with other people's hearts, and we all know Tobi doesn't have four heads on his back.

Hidan's inmortality is his special trait as far as we know. Oh and Kabuto's technque is much like Edo Tensei; he needs sacrifices. But then again, it doesn't matter because it would bring again the Orochimaru-Sharingan dilemma again. Also, Kabuto is only capable of controlling them from nearby, odds are making their heart beat drains his chakra, so it's not something he would do over an extended period.

Tobi's missing one eye

If they could regrow Obito's right eye, why can't they regrow the left one? If all this healing/reanimating business is true, then why is Tobi still missing parts? Even if they healed his right eye, then that means they have the secret of the Sharingan, meaning the could grow the other one. Also, this brings --again-- the Orochimaru/Sharingan dilemma; if he could regrow one, then he'd keep it! Or grow one on himself!

People bring the all the healing jutsu, and says who can heal and whatever, but Tobi is still missing an eye, regardless of being healed and regenerated.
-------------------------

Notes

Tobi's clothing

We all know that Tobi seems like he has bolts. Up to this point, it could be an armor, or pads. Even if it was bolts, it doesn't suggest that it is Obito, it suggest that he has been alive for a long time and maybe he might need that kind of support.

Tobi's body

We have now more reason to assume that he's not in Obito's body. If you notice right, in Chapter 383, if I'm not mistaken, we see that he's ghost-like. He can't be a ghost if he inhabiting a real body, like say Obito's.

Prolongation

We are hinted that Tobi/Madara has found a way of prolongation, for him to use with his "body". Maybe it turns him ghost-like? This might mean that Madara is dead after all! Maybe his soul lives on, but his body doesn't

Mask

There's a couple of reasons why Tobi/Madara might hide his face:

• Character hiding; Kishimoto may have done this to just make the character more interesting, as it is normal sorty writing.
• Tobi/Madara's face is too damaged and rotten, and thereby wants to hide it.
• He likes the mask

• He didn't want to reveal he was Madara so he hid his identity

Akatsuki may have not known who he was

Maybe it was only known to Pein, Konan and Zetsu who he was. Maybe Zetsu found out later, and maybe that's why not many people give him respect. Maybe he was acting misterious and as if he wasn't part of Akatsuki so no one would know Pein's plans. Or simply maybe he was recruited after, and Madara having the fame he has, maybe made him an exelent candidate.

It would be appreciated if anyone brought forth more notes.
--------------------------------------

My Theory

See, to me is very likely that in his fight against Shodai Hokage, he lost his left eye, and since we know that Shodai defeated him(Not killed), maybe since he was so damaged, he went to the Kyubbi to use it's powers. Due to the Kyubbi's absence, he hasn't been able to use his whole power, which presumably is the most powerful Mangekyou; the most ancient. I think that's why he needs Kyubbi so much, and this to me makes more sense than any Obitobi/Zetsu/Orochitobi theory.

Thanks to everyone for reading; if you got to this part, then you have balls. I know it is not an easy read, and I actually did this cheerfully. I would appreciatte any flaw found in my theory, and people adding more notes. Please, if you're going to tell me I'm wrong in any part, use common sense, it'd be appreciatted. Now, I think I can go throw myself in bed...... and wash my mouth. I have been practically all morning doing this. So for now, adieu.

[DeePoo]

I like this, I really do! I know how you feel, however:

A lot of times you say: it simply doesn't! or this is not true!

but those are just opinions for now, you should say: we don't know this for now!

because we'll only know for sure untill we see this in the manga

but I still like your theories the most about this case~!

~hyuuu~~~~~~

[Florox]

I like this, I really do! I know how you feel, however:

A lot of times you say: it simply doesn't! or this is not true!

but those are just opinions for now, you should say: we don't know this for now!

because we'll only know for sure untill we see this in the manga

but I still like your theories the most about this case~!

~hyuuu~~~~~~

Well, you're right on that sense, I guess I should work on that. Actually, what I meant was that you could say anything you wanted, but just have common sense after it. Just saying something is and period is wrong, I gave reasons as to why I thought those kind of stuff were wrong. I don't I recall saying something is wrong without any reasoning, but if I did, I apologize.

[paulbee]

Florox,

You have not proven that Tobi is not Obito, ie you have not given any evidence that shows that He (Tobi) definitely IS NOT Obitito.

What you have done instead is that you have pointed to what you see as flaws in the (pro Obito) arguments offered by those who believe that He is Obito. You fail to provide Manga proof to disprove those pro arguments.

Without Manga dis-proof, Kishi still has the option of making Tobi = Obito, without introducing self contradiction.

[Florox]

Florox,

You have not proven that Tobi is not Obito, ie you have not given any evidence that shows that He (Tobi) definitely IS NOT Obitito.

What you have done instead is that you have pointed to what you see as flaws in the (pro Obito) arguments offered by those who believe that He is Obito. You fail to provide Manga proof to disprove those pro arguments.

Without Manga dis-proof, Kishi still has the option of making Tobi = Obito, without introducing self contradiction.

Oh didn't I? I used common knowdedge to prove it. As a matter of fact is more probable that he isn't rather than he is. I think you didn't even read my whole post! You fail to make your point, because I used knowledge that EVERYONE knows. If I found the flaws that held the plausability, then it is no longer plausible. Isn't that obvious, Paulbee? I think you're just trying to whine here because of your sucky proof.

Mention what from my post is not a fact? I guess you didn't even read the disclaimer! bah, bad attempt at proving me wrong. Point out what I did wrong, and read the disclaimer, and then I'll accept it. Tell me what did I say that was not in the manga.

Tootles.

[paulbee]

Here goes,

1) Hair color does not matter....True, but that doesn't disprove Tobi=Obito
2) Tobi is a good boy etc......Same as above
3) Tobi is Madara.....Pein calls him Madara
4) Obito is a supporting character....Irrelevant
5) Obito is crushed by a million rocks....Not actually stated in the Manga
6) Zetsu did not find him.....Again not stated in the Manga
7) Pein did not create a 30% clone.....Doesn't disprove Tobi=Obito
8) Tobi is not a part of Pein....How do you know that, where in the Manga did you see that?
9) Obito has a 2 Tomoe Sharingan; Tobi/Madara has 3 Tomoes.....How did you conclude that Madar would need the Kyuubi to eveolve his sharingan?
10) No Edo tensei, No Chiyo-Baa...First how do you know this? Secondly, what makes you think that only these two jutsus are possible in the Narutoverse for reviving the dead?
11) Tobi missing one eye....Who knows, perhaps Tobi does have two eyes, or perhaps the jutsu couldn't reproduce the eye since it was willingly given away.

Point is, Florox, you have not offered any solid Manga evidence to disprove Tobi= Obito

[Kendoki]

Obito is an eyeless corpse buried under a shit load of rocks in the middle of nowhere. His only part in the manga was to teach Kakashi not to be a faggot and give him the sharingan. He would also often get things stuck in his eyes, despite wearing goggles. How/why the hell would he be Tobi?

[Simian]

Obito is an eyeless corpse buried under a shit load of rocks in the middle of nowhere. His only part in the manga was to teach Kakashi not to be a faggot and give him the sharingan. He would also often get things stuck in his eyes, despite wearing goggles. How/why the hell would he be Tobi?

you took the word from my mouth! (don't know if it's an English saying but it is in Dutch!)

[Florox]

Here goes,

1) Hair color does not matter....True, but that doesn't disprove Tobi=Obito I know; it disproves that theory, which was my point, dweeb.
2) Tobi is a good boy etc......Same as above That disproves another theory
3) Tobi is Madara.....Pein calls him MadaraErr.. no. Tobi is Madara, stated by himself in the manga. Learn japanese.
4) Obito is a supporting character....IrrelevantQuite relevant; people give him importance that he doesn't have.
5) Obito is crushed by a million rocks....Not actually stated in the Manga Oh really? I suggest you read those chapters again, chum.
6) Zetsu did not find him.....Again not stated in the MangaYou didn't read the disclaimer did you?
7) Pein did not create a 30% clone.....Doesn't disprove Tobi=ObitoNo, it disproves that theory
8) Tobi is not a part of Pein....How do you know that, where in the Manga did you see that?How do you know he is? Where in the manga did you see that? Read disclaimer dweeb.
9) Obito has a 2 Tomoe Sharingan; Tobi/Madara has 3 Tomoes.....How did you conclude that Madar would need the Kyuubi to eveolve his sharingan?Errr... you didn't read tghe theory did you? Or the manga as a matter of fact. Tobi states that he needs the Kyubbi to unleash the power of his Sharingan; it was in one of the chapters where he was presented as Madara.
10) No Edo tensei, No Chiyo-Baa...First how do you know this? Secondly, what makes you think that only these two jutsus are possible in the Narutoverse for reviving the dead?The same that makes you think there are more! I provided a theory, chum.
11) Tobi missing one eye....Who knows, perhaps Tobi does have two eyes, or perhaps the jutsu couldn't reproduce the eye since it was willingly given away. You didn't read my theory did you? Maybe it doesn't make it right, but it's more true than anything your brain can process. And yeah, pehaps his eye couldn't have been regenerated because he was never regenerateds ot begin with! You should try to contradict my WHOLE paragraph, because some of them are in chain.

Point is, Florox, you have not offered any solid Manga evidence to disprove Tobi= Obito

Point is, you haven't either, which renders your post useless. Oh and:

Disclaimer: I will use a lot of common sense here. What do I mean by that? Well, instead of going for plausible, I will go likelyness, which is what everyone should do when reviewing a theory. I'll explain myself: If I theorized that Sasuke screwed a cow, before the chunnin exams, to get a Sharingan, is that likely? No. is it plausible? Yes. Nevertheless, it's stupid. So please, don't see anything here as "it could happen or not", but it's likelyhood. Allright, with that going I'm also going to let you know that, I'm going to avoid puting pictures because this is a big thread.

Shut up now.

Edit: Paulbee, you tried to mention on this post what weren't facts, yet one the first one you go..."True, but.." Lawl. Same on the second one, andon the other ones. Well, except for the Zetsu thing, but since the point of this thread is likelyhood, not plausability, then it renders your post uselss. Lawl.

[Shinhan]

Your theories have too many holes. You state that basically your theories can have holes we will just call them likely or common sense. Yet you can not have a counter claim because then thats only plausable. Whatever.

1. During the time Obito supposedly died, Akatsuki could have already formed.
Zetsu hides anywhere he could have witnessed Obito being crushed. Not just
said hmm some rocks let me look in there.

2. Obito states that his right side is ALMOST smashed. The reason Obito couldn't give Kakashi his right eye was not necessarily because it was destroyed, it could have been because there was a boulder on it that Kakashi could not move.

3. You say he's not a clone. Well for all you know the real Obito is in a tank somewhere semi-concious and kept alive with jutsus and machines, controlling a 30% clone from there.

4. You say that Tobi said he couldn't evolve the Sharingan without the Nine Tails. I don' believe this. If Kakashi can evolve the sharingan from two tomes to three and also obtain Mangekyou Sharingan than I believe Tobi can. What I believe he meant was he could not go beyond Mangekyou without help.

5. Tobi is not a ghost. What we do see in Chapter 383 is that Tobi kicked naruto. We have also seen Tobi pick up the Akatsuki ring. A ghost can't do these things. What he does is a Jutsu.

6. Yes there probably is a reason Tobi is wearing a mask and hiding his face. Because he's Obito. Or maybe the mask somehow keeps dirt out of his eyes. huh huh

I'm not saying I think Tobi is Obito. I just found your reasons loose and unconvincing.