Abortion

[sevencold19]

abortion is murder no matter how u see it in the moment a zygote is form that is a new live and destroy that is just wrong.

[paulbee]

Zidane Haven't you ever heard of Partial Birth Abortion?

Abortion is more rampant and performed later than you think.

[Freakshow]

Current laws look at abortion like this, at least over here. The Mother has a privacy right in her own body. That right is unchanging. She will always have it. This is represented by the red line.

The Blue line is the Government's interest in protecting the unborn. Notice that it increases over the time of the pregnancy. The intersection point is the point of viability for the unborn (As science advances, this moves back).

When the blue line it is below the red line, the Mother's rights are considered more important. When the blue line is above the red line, the Government's interest in protecting the unborn is greater than the mothers rights. Hence, no Abortions when the blue line is higher.

[RedneckNoob]

I bet none of you have ever lived a life where your parents truly didn't want you. Where your parents hated you because they believed you to be ruining their life.

All of you are advocating to have more children like that in this world; children whose existence is despised. "They can be put up for adoption!" That won't change the fact that very few adoptive parents are good parents, even with all of the fucking security checks. Why do you think the system fucking blows? Because there's no one who wants to adopt that's a good parent.

I guess since an insect is a life, we can't end it's life. Hurry, we must destroy all pesticides!

My hair must be living because it's growing, it should be punishable by law for me to choose to cut my hair.

We're not allowed to pick flowers because it ends their lives.

I don't give a rats ass if the child has a potential. It's better to end an unwanted child's life than to have them suffer through a life of hardships made only worse by being unwanted. Abortion is mercy.

[Mister Death]

I don't give a rats ass if the child has a potential. It's better to end an unwanted child's life than to have them suffer through a life of hardships made only worse by being unwanted. Abortion is mercy.

To make it clear for you Narutards out their he mean that he doesn't want them to turn out like Sasuke or Pein all bitter and hateful of everything...

[Freakshow]

I bet none of you have ever lived a life where your parents truly didn't want you. Where your parents hated you because they believed you to be ruining their life..

I beg to differ.

[RedneckNoob]

Masturbation is abortion!! YOU'RE ENDING THE POTENTIAL OF FUTURE LIFE!!!

[guy]

lol. want about babies, americans are even importing babies from china.

[Asce]

Embryo's, and fetuses are alive. So logically, you are ending a life. The problem, is with the acceptance of when "life" begins. So by what I read in your comment, you suggest that life begins when the human is able to think and process information right?

Yes, but you're also ending a life when you step on ant or when you wash your hands. The word "life" does not only apply to humans.

Then we have another group, says as soon as conception happens, which is what I agree with.

It is still an organism, that can become human. Preventing it because of denial, is imo inexcusable, and that person should be held accountable for their actions. Doesnt necessarily have to be by criminal law, but some form of responsibility.

Just because it can become human doesn't mean it has to be allowed the chance to develop into a human.

A fetus can think on its own as much as a newborn baby can. So, is it okay to kill newborn babies?

Quite false. A fetus cannot think on its own as much as a newborn baby can.

Governments can sentence people to death because those people have chosen to break the law, which in some cases is punishable by death. You can even get off from death row by pleading insanity. A baby wasn't given that choice.

You're right, from now on we shall always have the aborting surgeon scream "IF ANYONE OPPOSES THIS ABORTION, SPEAK NOW OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE" I doubt this will affect abortion rates but at least we'll be giving the fetus the chance to respond.

Im not deciding what the mother does and doesnt. Murdering a human is against the law, but people do it everyday.

what im debating, is that should a mother be held responsible, for denying life?

Stop being so dramatic by claiming it's denying life. I am not saying that the fetus isn't living, I am merely saying that it's not murder. Unless you consider killing a fly murder or washing your hands murder, then it is not murder.

Abortion to me, is a sacrifice of potential of life. I wont want to impose my views on other people, but I wont want people to ignore them either. If people ignore their actions, it can have a negative effect on ones society, or any individual. On the flip side, it can have a positive effect. IT really depends, and in my first post in this thread, I said it really depends on the circumstance. I've said, if the mother is financially able, competent, and healthy to support child birth, whats stopping her from having a baby? Because she doesnt want to be bothered? I cant comprehend the sense that that supposedly makes. In all other cases(well most) I can accept a mother's decision, based on the circumstance. But if it is solely based on a whimsical decision, I dont see the sense in having an abortion, and believe that the mother should be held responsible and accountable.

Similarly, I can't comprehend the sense in forcing a mother to give birth to the child simply because you, an outsider in her life has deemed it morally wrong.

The whole abortion issue revolves around 4 fallacies:
In the face of science and logic alone (1) fails.

a) If an embryo is not alive, why then is a bacterium alive
b) If it is alive but not a human life, then what is it, an alien?

Clearly it is alive and it is human life.

If you were paying attention in this thread, you'd realize we've all consented that the fetus is alive, and by drawing a parallel to bacterium, you have also proved my point. If you don't consider washing your hands and killing bacteria murder, why is aborting a fetus murder?

Point (2) also fails the logic test:

Unless there is Magical Voodo connected with Passing through the birth canal, or being exposed to the atmosphere, it is illogical to arbitrary assign status to a baby on the instant of birth, but consider it less 30 seconds before that.

Actually we're mostly discussing the fetus in terms of when abortion is still an option, IE before the..second trimester I believe? (not sure on that one)

If so, then the argument would be that the fetus is not human before the second trimester but is after. Either way, whether it is human or not, it's rights are compromised when it is a fetus. It's rights are even compromised when it is a baby, all the way up until it is 18.

Point (3) sounds good until you think about it:

a) The growing baby is a separate living entity. Any statement to the contrary is Voodoo.

b) In Law, and culture, throughout human history, Nobody but nobody whether Male, Female, or Hermaphrodite, has ever had the right to do just "anything" they wish with their bodies. This is why there are laws against drug use and self endangerment. The Abortion debate cannot be the sole exception to this.

While it is a separate entity, I would think that the fact that it resides in a woman's fucking uterus gives the woman some power over deciding its fate. In fact, residency laws state that when you live somewhere, the owner of said residency has the right to implement rules which you must follow. If you treat it like a human, then you must treat the uterus as it's state of residency, and it must follow the decisions of the mother. But that's just being silly.

You mentioned laws against drug use and self endangerment, obviously, if a woman wishes to have an abortion, having the baby isn't in her best interest and having the abortion would be the exact opposite of self endangerment.

Your forth point had no relevancy in this current discussion.

[• healing rain •]

Most important thing that should be said while discussing this topic,
abortion doesn't mean killing babies. Those aren't babies, nor children,
stop calling them that and bringing it on a extremly emotional level
this way, they don't have feelings, they don't have thoughts, it's
"just" an embryo, later fetus, please stick with that term.

Edit: And I agree with hand banana there... it is a touchy subject, I have
a clear opinion on it, so do many others. Yet, please try to remain objective
and cool, even if it's somehow directly related to you.

i was a fetus once.

While it is a separate entity, I would think that the fact that it resides in a woman's fucking uterus gives the woman some power over deciding its fate.

does this mean that if i reside in your house then you can kill me when you choose?