[paulbee]

@ Rokudaime,

I am presently disinclined to accept without question that Sasuke posseses the Sword of Totsuka, and the Mirror. I say this because of the fact that he would have been invulnerable had he used the mirror, and he could have defeated ALL the Kages and Madara too, perhaps, had he used the sword.

Now unless devious mister Kishimoto was allowing Sasuke to take a beating even though he had the means to victory, him possessing those legendary weapons is at least questionable.

Regarding the sword that Susanoo held, I just construed it to be a counterfeit Totsuke. Sasuke as we know has a counterfeit Kusanagi. this one could be similar.

I do concede the possibility of Sasuke eventually manifesting both, or perhaps he has both, but was too blinded by rage and hate to fully utilise what he had in his possession. I'll await the truth as it unfolds.

[Rlinfamous]

Originally Posted by paulbee

@ Rokudaime,

I am presently disinclined to accept without question that Sasuke posseses the Sword of Totsuka, and the Mirror. I say this because of the fact that he would have been invulnerable had he used the mirror, and he could have defeated ALL the Kages and Madara too, perhaps, had he used the sword.

Now unless devious mister Kishimoto was allowing Sasuke to take a beating even though he had the means to victory, him possessing those legendary weapons is at least questionable.

Regarding the sword that Susanoo held, I just construed it to be a counterfeit Totsuke. Sasuke as we know has a counterfeit Kusanagi. this one could be similar.

I do concede the possibility of Sasuke eventually manifesting both, or perhaps he has both, but was too blinded by rage and hate to fully utilise what he had in his possession. I'll await the truth as it unfolds.

It could also be that, had he materialized Susano'o to that degree against the Cloud and Sand ninjas, he'd have been done fighting shortly afterwards. It already took just about all he had to materialize it as far as he did. His goal wasn't to steamroll Kages, it was to find Danzou. Already, he was just about out of fight by the time he glared at Danzou... I mean, if he'd had the chakra and time to glare, he could have used Amaterasu.

Frankly, Sasuke's goals would have been better-served retreating after finishing Gaara/Raikage, so that, the next time he faced Danzou, he'd have had a better shot... but then again, Sasuke's goals would have been better-served simply never going to the summit in the first place.

EDIT: And @Afro's post regarding Obito dying against a rock... that rock was pretty good! I mean, it almost took out Kakashi... it took both Obito and Kakashi just to survive against it, and even then, they couldn't beat it. One day, we'll see Kakashi return to the site, and use Kamui to remove the rock.

Then we'll find the body missing, with a note saying, "lol teleport" and several receipts for orange masks. JK!

[artifice]

Originally Posted by Rlinfamous

Eh, none of Sasuke's strongest techniques counter Naruto's Rasenshuriken, because he doesn't have any S-class fire jutsu besides "Amaterasu", which probably doesn't follow normal physics anyway. Basically, Sasuke doesn't use much actual fire these days, and Naruto only has one Wind jutsu.

And Kagebunshins are a counter to Mangekyou, if anything. They can block Amaterasu from hitting the real body, distribute chakra evenly among the bodies to make it difficult for even the Sharingan to tell which is real, and let him follow the "If facing the Sharingan, attack two at a time" strategy.

The problem is that while Naruto is using multiple clones to maintain Sage mode he is extremely limited in the number of shadow clones he can use.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...4/page015.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...1/page004.html

Naruto is able to maintain Sage mode for an extended period by making clones gather more senju chakra but the more clones he has gathering senju chakra the fewer shadow clones he can create. Hence that is why he needed to wait until he had used up both of the clones that were gathering senju chakra before he was able to use his mass shadow clone. It is a bit of a trade off, by using clones to gather senju chakra he boosts his ability to use Sage mode and gets more shots with Rasenshuriken but at the cost being able to use mass shadow clones while he has clones gathering senju chakra.

Naruto desperately needs Sage mode to face Sasuke and with Sage mode he is on a timer which removes his advantage of outlasting Sasuke. Right now I would say Amaterasu beats Rasenshuriken and Susanoo beats Sage mode (I think the fight with Raikage is evidence of that). People have argued that Sasuke can only use Amaterasu a few times but even with 2 clones gathering Senju chakra Naruto has said that he only has 6 shots with Rasenshuriken (every 2 shots he falls out of Sage mode and needs either a clone with senju chakra or time to stand still and gather more).

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...1/page011.html

Sasuke has shown that he can use Amaterasu at least 3 times and he can also manipulate the flames once they are formed. Sasuke was able to hit the lightening fast and lightening armored Raikage with Amaterasu, frankly at this point I don't see Naruto fairing much better.

Right now I think Naruto is on the right path, trying to learn how to extend Sage mode, I think his best chance is just forcing Sasuke to use up all his big moves and still have enough Sage mode left over to finish things. As it stands though Sasuke seems to hold the advantage as I really don't see how Naruto would be able to avoid all of Sasuke's fatal attacks.

[Aleph-Sama]

When they end up fighting each other, I hope they are evenly matched. I want an EPIC fight, of EPIC proportions, one the likes of which the Naruto verse has never seen!!!

[Rlinfamous]

Originally Posted by artifice

The problem is that while Naruto is using multiple clones to maintain Sage mode he is extremely limited in the number of shadow clones he can use.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...4/page015.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...1/page004.html

Naruto is able to maintain Sage mode for an extended period by making clones gather more senju chakra but the more clones he has gathering senju chakra the fewer shadow clones he can create. Hence that is why he needed to wait until he had used up both of the clones that were gathering senju chakra before he was able to use his mass shadow clone. It is a bit of a trade off, by using clones to gather senju chakra he boosts his ability to use Sage mode and gets more shots with Rasenshuriken but at the cost being able to use mass shadow clones while he has clones gathering senju chakra.

Naruto desperately needs Sage mode to face Sasuke and with Sage mode he is on a timer which removes his advantage of outlasting Sasuke. Right now I would say Amaterasu beats Rasenshuriken and Susanoo beats Sage mode (I think the fight with Raikage is evidence of that). People have argued that Sasuke can only use Amaterasu a few times but even with 2 clones gathering Senju chakra Naruto has said that he only has 6 shots with Rasenshuriken (every 2 shots he falls out of Sage mode and needs either a clone with senju chakra or time to stand still and gather more).

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...1/page011.html

Sasuke has shown that he can use Amaterasu at least 3 times and he can also manipulate the flames once they are formed. Sasuke was able to hit the lightening fast and lightening armored Raikage with Amaterasu, frankly at this point I don't see Naruto fairing much better.

Right now I think Naruto is on the right path, trying to learn how to extend Sage mode, I think his best chance is just forcing Sasuke to use up all his big moves and still have enough Sage mode left over to finish things. As it stands though Sasuke seems to hold the advantage as I really don't see how Naruto would be able to avoid all of Sasuke's fatal attacks.

With regards to Naruto's limited use of clones in Sage Mode, I argue that by the time he faces Sasuke, he'll have increased the duration of his Sage Mode. After all, he has just stated that's his training objective for the moment.

Once he no longer relies on clones to maintain his Sage Mode, he can use as many as he wants, like against God Realm at the end.

[artifice]

Originally Posted by Rlinfamous

With regards to Naruto's limited use of clones in Sage Mode, I argue that by the time he faces Sasuke, he'll have increased the duration of his Sage Mode. After all, he has just stated that's his training objective for the moment.

Once he no longer relies on clones to maintain his Sage Mode, he can use as many as he wants, like against God Realm at the end.

Against god realm at the end he had already used up all of his clones who were gathering senju chakra, that is why he was able to use many at the end. As I explained, and as the manga explains, the problem is that while he has clones gathering senju chakra he cannot use many clones because the clones gathering chakra will lose their focus. When he fought god realm both clones that were gathering chakra had been used. One he had used in combat previously and one was lost when the Kyuubi took control.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...1/page004.html

I agree though that by the time he does eventually face Sasuke he will have improved the use of Sage mode significantly. As I mentioned in my previous post I think Naruto is on the write track by focusing on his ability to lengthen the use of Sage mode. As it stands though Naruto's more powerful attacks are limited in both the number of times he can use them and the length of their duration. Naruto's biggest advantage over Sasuke is that he has a much larger chakra reserve but since he can only maintain Sage mode for a very limited period of time that is not really a big advantage at this point. In order to win Sasuke doesn't need to outlast Naruto's chakra he simply needs to outlast Sage mode. Even if Naruto can maintain Sage mode for the entire fight he is going to be hard pressed trying to survive against Sasuke's Mangekyou techniques. Sasuke has already proven that he can take on high speed, high power opponents like Raikage and Killerbee. Naruto needs something more than that and right now I am not seeing it.

If this were simply a question of who will win when they do fight I would say Naruto but right now Sasuke holds the upper hand. Sasuke has multiple ways of dealing with Rasenshuriken, right now Naruto doesn't seem to have any way of dealing with Sasuke's mangekyou techniques. The way I see it Naruto should really do three things before he fights Sasuke, improve his ability to sustain Sage mode, learn to better control Kyuubi, and develop a non-wind tech to counter Amaterasu. Right now Naruto's only way of dealing with Amaterasu would be to use summoned frogs as a buffer but I really don't think he is going to want to sacrifice all those frogs. He might be able to avoid one shot with clones but with Sasuke's ability to control Amaterasu's shape its inconceivable to think that such a method would work for long, if at all. Naruto needs a good answer to Amaterasu, if he can beat Amaterasu outlasting Susanoo shouldn't be as difficult. It is hard to say though until we see what Sasuke's mastered Susanoo is like, if he gets the sword and mirror that will be another huge bonus in his corner.