Naruto 604 Discussion / 605 Predictions

Clearly Madara is behind all of this, I think we can all agree. The connection the Mist village, the network of Zetsu in the area... it all points to Madara the only question is to what extent Obito himself becomes aware of this; you'd think that at this point, the Tobi we know would see clearly that Madara had a hand in Rin's death.

I could see the irrational and traumatized Obito infusing himself with Spiral Zetsu's strength/intelligence if he's given proper motivation; in the last two chapters, Spiral Zetsu has constantly tempted Obito with this possibility, and also stated that the Zetsu are more intelligent than human beings.

One interesting thing is that Obito saw through the eye he'd given Kakashi. This reminds me a bit of the Rinnegan's shared vision. Not sure how it's relevant, but perhaps it's another watered-down Sharingan version of a Rinnegan ability.

I wonder what set of circumstances forced Kakashi to kill Rin. I also wonder if we'll get an explanation of where Minato was during all this. I'm expecting at least two more weeks of flashbacks... next week we'll see Obito return to Madara, and perhaps after that we'll get his final transformation into Tobi (along with Madara's death?).

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Originally Posted by Sirxxx

Please refrain from ass-generated theories, at least for another few pages into the discussion. It's ass-generated if it assumes suicide or fake versions of the people:

-It's not suicide! How can it be SUICIDE (the murder of one's SELF) when we clearly see Kakashi killing the other person? Furthermore, there are far simpler/effective means of ending one's life then shoving your limbs through your body.
-It's NOT a fake! How would a Zetsu know how to do Chidori? Why would a Zetsu cry afterwards?!

Please think for a few moments before asserting a theory so as to increase the likelihood that the theory is logical and thus worth reading.

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Follow your own advice please? It's suicide because the thought goes kakashi kills rin first (he has the resolve?) Then takes his own life. Did you forget to think that far or do some things just not occur to you. It's viable for several possible reasons and shouldn't be ruled out. The method doesn't matter as long as they die quickly before they are captured. Why chidori? It kills fast and has likelihood of being prepared NY kakashi in battle conditions. A suicide scenario is open for obito to discover and witness it at any point the way through the "ritual" of it.

Rule it out if you want, mistakenly call it ass generated if you wish but the fact you didn't understood it's given in our assumption that kakashi would would take his own life after rin's tells me you can't play half the game. The murder of one's self, truly...

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Originally Posted by Rlinfamous

I wonder what set of circumstances forced Kakashi to kill Rin. I also wonder if we'll get an explanation of where Minato was during all this. I'm expecting at least two more weeks of flashbacks...

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Kishi might very well not telling us for another 6 months. Would be quite like him.

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Originally Posted by Rlinfamous

One interesting thing is that Obito saw through the eye he'd given Kakashi. This reminds me a bit of the Rinnegan's shared vision. Not sure how it's relevant, but perhaps it's another watered-down Sharingan version of a Rinnegan ability.

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Probably, but most likely it activated because Obito now has both, the Senju and Uchiha powers and was quite close to the other eye.

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Originally Posted by Sirxxx

Please refrain from ass-generated theories, at least for another few pages into the discussion. It's ass-generated if it assumes suicide or fake versions of the people

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Please refrain from being so not open to the others meaning.
I do not like the suicide theory, but still would agree that we can't totally rule it out.
Let's please try to keep this forum friendly and try to have respect for the proposals of the others.

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Originally Posted by knife eater

Follow your own advice please? It's suicide because the thought goes kakashi kills rin first (he has the resolve?) Then takes his own life. Did you forget to think that far or do some things just not occur to you. It's viable for several possible reasons and shouldn't be ruled out. The method doesn't matter as long as they die quickly before they are captured.

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Dude, just..."The method doesn't matter as long as they die quickly". Yeah, that's why when one is in a hurry to kill oneself, one should take the time to weave seals, expend chakra, establish a technique...and THEN actually start the killing? No! You do as Yahiko did: toss the other guy a Kunai and then have at him.

Not to be disrespectful, but suicide? Really?! Rin's reaction--the shocked face of terror that she's showing Kakashi--is not the face of someone expecting to have a chidori shoved through their heart.

These are the faces of Shinobi committing suicide for a greater cause:
http://i45.tinypic.com/5v7ubn.png http://i48.tinypic.com/2wmi354.png http://i45.tinypic.com/fe1hdy.png

Whereas Rin is CLEARLY surprised to be being killed. I like reading theories as much as the next guy, but there's nothing fun or interesting about reading pages and pages of theory that are NOT supported by or based on events of the actual manga you're theorizing about. Rin dying by suicide is not supported in this chapter. That's all.

And so this isn't purely a post that only bitches out something, I stand by my assertion that Kakashi meant to kill Rin, on purpose, in this chapter. Notice that we are shown his reaction--sadness, tears.

What it is NOT present, however, is surprise, or regret.

And if he had just come out of a genjutsu, or had just stabbed at something in the mist and found it to be his teammate, wouldn't you expect a reaction of at least some shock on Kakashi's part? A "Rin?!" or a "How did..." or something. But no--He just tears up. It seems to suggest that even though he wasn't happy about it, he knew what he was doing.

The chapter was pretty nice. Damn you Kakashi for hogging such complicated past. Nice one, Kishi.

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Originally Posted by Inderos

As for hunting down the actual panels... Look that stuff up on your own. It's not like there are very many chapters featuring both Minato and Kakashi... It should have been obvious where to look. If you can't participate in the conversation here without providing citations from the manga and dissertation length essays on the Narutoverse, I'll go back to lurking. Ever heard of Foogling? No one here is your secretary...

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Well, you definitely should read this:

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Originally Posted by Jean-Marie

Let's please try to keep this forum friendly

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on a side note, we seem to have found our answer as to how tobi/obito was able to at least keep up with minito, zetzu can take over obitos body. this mixed with seeing rin die could lead to the type of training that it would take to gain the skill. also, if obito thinks minito is out on some other mission instead of being there to protect rin or stop kakashi, then this would explain a lot as well. look at how far naruto can come in a short time in training with a fire up his backside. if obito learns how to use the senju power that zetzu spoke of in this chapter then he should gain power soon. just saying...

Suicide? Assassination? Set-up?
I have a last theory, none of you guys thought of: the accident.
Kakashi tries to grab Rin's boob. Because of the excitement the chidori ignites from itself and Rin's whole body got pierced. Shit happens. Life goes on. Without Rin. Too bad.

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Originally Posted by Jean-Marie

Suicide? Assassination? Set-up?
I have a last theory, none of you guys thought of: the accident.
Kakashi tries to grab Rin's boob. Because of the excitement the chidori ignites from itself and Rin's whole body got pierced. Shit happens. Life goes on. Without Rin. Too bad.

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You sir are too cruel! [Lights a cigarette.] I approve.
Kakashi's libido ingited his hand with lightning!