Originally Posted by almara
Food for thought Almara.
Wish I could locate the Chapter where Madara Unmasks himself from the shadows as he was controling the Mitsukage. If you take that Chapter together with the one immediately above, then Kisame saw Tobi/Madara's face Twice (it would seem), and recognized them as the same face.
Now, in a Manga where Orochimaru routinely changes his face or the face of his host, this does not necessarily prove anything.
Originally Posted by paulbee
Two of the Six Paths are now one being? Tobi was tripping balls. :D So which paths were Madara and Hashirama and who are the other four for that matter?
Hah, I found it. This is the First instance, where Kisame sees the face of the Long Haired "Madara"/ Tobi.
In this First instance, the was no Mask on Madara/Tobi, so Kisame sees the face. It is significant that he recognizes Tobi as the Mizukage/Madara again, years later, based on seeing the face alone, not on the mask or the hair. It is also significant that the Mizukage Yagura probably preceededthe death of Obito (not so sure about this however).
Like I've said elsewhere, Kishimoto has done a good job purposefully obscuring facts and mingling references making it dificult to unravel the truth ahead of HIS own great reveal.
Kishi wants to make sure that fans don't know the answer long before he is ready to tell them the answer, therefore he's woven his tale with wishy washy references that could easily be interpreted one way or another.
That doesn't prove Tobi is actually Madara. Shit even Madara knows Tobi isn't Madara. And like I said, Kisame killed himself to protect Tobi's secret. By that time the shinobi world "knew" Madara had returned. Why would Kisame kill himself to safeguard Tobi's secret identity if it wasn't a secret? Madara, Tobi, and Orochi-Kabuto knows that Tobi isn't Madara. Even someone as dumb as Naruto knows that Tobi isn't Madara. How you manage to still think he is, is just baffling.
If izuna "orochimaru'd" into obito BEFORE the events of kakashi gaiden...
1) izuna supports madara- being obito gets him close to necessary elements of their plan (9 tails and konaha secrets) without drawing suspicion yet also gaining trust.
2) izuna against madara- being obito means he can build and develop an uchiha body and eyes to a better potential if started young. He could use the power to battle madara again. Why obito? Sure, there are plenty uchiha pre massacre but it has to be somebody! Maybe it was best age to start, maybe obito has massive potential since he was selected to be minato's subordinate. Maybe obito is direct offspring of izuna or a grandson. Anyway you look at it, kamui and tobi phase have turned out to be quite formidable.
3) izuna indifferent to madara- he could have a second chance at life depending on how bad it was when alive with madara. If izuna was a good Guy on the inside then his experience with kakashi and minato may have given him hope for where his village was headed and the injustices it was turning away from (before he snapped again and became tobi)
He fakes his death as obito because his 3 years are up and can make a clean exit, content with his entrusted wish to kakashi.
This does explain why they share similarly dorky tendencies (deidara sempaiiiiiii) (something in my eye, I'm not crying).
I don't believe this but wanted to share anyway after reading some of zero's posts about orochimaru 's 3 year cycle body swaps.
i love your signature, knife eater, taken out of context to say something about me, when in actuality it proves me right about my statement in the particular thread.
Now we get to see how Kishi's explanation stacks up to the ones provided in this thread.
I think this would be the best part of it all
Originally Posted by Rlinfamous
For me, I am something of an Idealist. It gives me no pleasure whatsoever to see a good guy like Obito go from Kakashi's new friend, to a fiend that wants to end the world. IOTW I find it difficult to accept that Obito would mentally and emotionally Turn into Tobi. Good guy turns into Major bad guy. This is a very Cynical and pessimistic change that doesn't sit too well for me.
1) Obviously, Tobi has Got Obito's Face, but Does he have Obito's mind. Did Madara subject him to Tsukuyomi until he was fully converted to the dark side? Or is it someone else merely using Obito's Body?
2) Kisame saw Tobi's face Twice, and each time acknowledges him as Madara, Obviously Kisame (and everyone else) knows what Madara looks like, so was that Sarcasm by Kisame? At the very least, it means that the face Kisame saw when Yagura was controlled must be the same face he saw on Tobi after Sasuke Joined Akatsuki. This is wherer the Timeline seems messed up.
3) Obito, even with Zetsu parts should still not be able to go toe to toe with Yondaime (Yeah he did, let's not deny it). So then is this More Tsukuyomi training, or is it someone else?
4) Controling the Kyuubi...This should be possible only to someone with MS (NOT JUST ANY SHARINGAN). Well, so Tobi gains the MS within 1 yr. It's doable.
My Tentative conclusion is that Tobi could be Obito if He was extensively modified with Tsukuyomi and with Zetsu Parts. There is a problem with Tobi being Obito (literally), if you consider Timelines, where Yagura is controlled by Tobi/Madara/Obito, who has the same face as someone not yet born.
Hoo boy. I'm getting a Migraine just thinking about this,
I'm not sure if it was mentioned in this thread earlier, but one very reasonable theory is that there have been several Tobis throughout the timeline. It may be that a single life-force has been occupying several different bodies throughout this period (a la Orochimaru's mind transfer), which would allow for all the knowledge and ability. As to whose life-force it is, we don't really know for sure yet.
One question that remains unanswered would be how Tobi used Kamui during his battle with Minato. The use of Kamui suggests that it was, indeed Obito, which implies the theory that Obito's body was altered/was just that tall due to puberty. Once his seemingly mortal injuries were treated, the body could be used as the vessel for a brand new Tobi. The occupation of the body by this unknown life-force could have accelerated the development of the Sharingan to its level upon the fight with Minato. Thus, it seems reasonable for the body to develop that level of Sharingan and the ability to handle the Kyuubi in the years (or months, not sure) between Obito's death and the attack of the Kyuubi.
My signature is incomplete context because if the character limit in signatures. Though incomplete context, it is still in the correct context and illustrates the point just fine. You were right about one thing, you originally said madara died shortly after his fight with hashirama and i accused you of saying he died during. You got me, i was wrong and either way you are still wrong because nobody knows when madara died, shortly after the fight or great lengths of time afterwards.
And here we are, obito is tobi, something you said was laughable and laughable for reasons you were dead wrong about. Now, i will leave you alone, never to respond or flame you again in these forums. The end of the day showed us who was right.
@ everyone else, last mystery for me is the muzukage face. Long haired masked man approaches mizukage, short haired masked man shows his face to kisame, which he recognized as mizukage. We never see kisame with either maske man during the mizukage manipulation do we? Could tobi have taken over mizukage detail before meeting kisame? Does tobi project an illusion if his face?
IS TOBI PROJECTING AN ILLUSION OF OBITO'S FACE TO KAKASHI, GAI, AND NARUTO?