Great post! Also, there is still a viable plot twist which could end up making madara NOT know of or about TOBI. That strictly depends on how extensive and if at all the relationship between orochimaru and madara.Quote:
I know Uchiha Blood. He's..., well I won't go there. Let's just say I know him. Allow me to explain how this works.
The first, most important point of them all.
What make Obito ( a Naruto wannabe ) change idea in the time span of 1 or 2 years?
The same Obito believing in heroes and giving Kakashi his famous phrase, why would he make a speech on how the world doesn't need any heroes?.
We can easily see how Tobi and Obito share two, very different ideals, and unless he was brainwashed by someone, it would make no sense whatsoever for such a radical change.
This entire section is contradicted by the Narutoverse itself. We've seen many characters change because of war, death, disappointment, and so forth. Orochimaru was a good kid, even after losing his parents. Hell he was still a good person when he was a sannin but over the years, seeing the death of his comrades and the effects of war he was driven batshit insane. We've seen how Kabuto used to be a gentle soul and it only took 1 or 2 years for him to lose it thanks to Danzo's machinations. And let's not even get started on Nagato who as a child was a pacifist who later grew into an adult advocating widespread genocide. So please, there is plenty in the Narutoverse that can cause a character to undergo a radical change.
Also, why harbour such a hate for his former sensei, his wife and his child to the point of covering the latter with paper bombs?
The same Yondaime that teached him and Kakashi about teamwork?
Remember Obito calling Kakashi captain as a sign of peace because Yondaime explained to him that Kakashi's life was the hardest of them all, asking him to understand where he comes from?
Didn't Nagato harbor a lot of love and respect for his master only for it to turn to disgust? He even went so far as to kill Jiraiya. Didn't Orochimaru admire Sarutobi who taught him and his team about working together and familial bonds? Hmmmm, didn't Orochimaru later kill Sarutobi after the world warped him? Hmmmmm, didn't Sasuke try to kill Kakashi a hundred or so chapters ago? Hmmmmm, we've seen a lot of characters love and respect their teachers in the beginning, only to be warped by the pain of war and turn to hate their mentors.
We know the Kyuubi's attack happened 1, 2 years at best after Kakashi's Gaiden, since Kakashi and Gai seem 14, 15 at best.
Here we see how an adult physique ( Kurenai's father ) isn't even comparable to the kids, while here we see Tobi having the same physique as Yondaime.
Obito never was renowed to have a peculiar height or bulk ( he seems on the short side ), so it doesn't make sense for him to obtain the body of an adult in a 1-2 years span.
Still it isn't a valid point, so I'll provide others:
Uchiha Blood never heard of puberty it seems.
Do you have any idea how long I've waited for this moment?
A 16 years old saying that? After 1-2 years passed?
Are 2 years such a huge span of time to wait?
Uh yeah. Remember when Sasuke bumped into Itachi at that hotel where Akatsuki was tailing Naruto? And remember when Sasuke said "I've waited my whole life for this moment"? Sasuke was only 14 years old. Itachi went batshit when Sasuke was six. My point is for a kid going through a tragedy any amount of time is a long-time to them.
But wait, there is more:
The same Tobi that Kabuto knows not to be the real Madara saying, in front of Kabuto and Zetsu, both knowing his real identity, that he obtained Hashirama's tissue during that battle?
Maybe I forgot something, but as I recall, Hashirama died way before Obito was even born.
But there is more still.
This has been explained at least a billion times. Orochimaru was in possession of Hashirama's cells which were used in the creation of Zetsu. We're never told how Orochimaru came to be in possession of them but Uchiha Blood's argument, like most of his posts has no point to make. The issue here wouldn't be how Obito got Hashirama's cells but how Orochimaru got them in the first place. Orochimaru performed hundreds of experiments on kids and Yamamoto was the only one who survived. It's entirely possible (even likely) that Danzo was also involved in these experiments and may have carried them out on Obito who is now Tobi. Orochimaru himself was probably the one who carried out such experiments. These facts set forth by me, though always good are probably not neccessary as Tobi is in possession of Hashirama's cells via Zetsu. I don't recall the manga saying that Tobi himself carried out the experiments but rather he was a recipient of their benefits.
Tobi was the one that "created" Akatsuki, and the one to gave Nagato the Rin'negan, the same Nagato Madara seem to know.
Wasn't Nagato, like, a lot older than Obito? He was Jiraiya's student, meaning he should have at least Yondaime's age, if not older.
I answered this in another thread so I won't waste my time refuting it again.
Not counting also his knowledge about both Uchiha's jutsus and Uchiha's history, why would Obito have this reaction when talking about Izuna?
It was the only reaction he had, even when talking about the Uchiha's massacre or his banishment he was impassible.
Why then responding to Izuna?
It's called "acting." Sasuke had just lost his brother (in a way). In order to manipulate Sasuke, Tobi needed him to think that "as Madara" he experienced a similar loss. It's the oldest trick in the book. You make your hostage empathize with you in order to get from them their cooperation and in some cases their allegiance.
Madara personally knows Tobi, the same Madara that was resurrected by Edo Tensei at the same state of his death, meaning Madara likely "died" around 30-40 years of age, judging by his overall aspect.
Was Obito even born? Remember, at Madara and Hashirama's prime an old fart like Hiruzen was just a kid
Madara knows many things he shouldn't. Madara himself is a rabbit hole. The only reason I won't refute this is because there is A LOT about Madara and his revivial that doesn't make any sense.
We know that Obito was a funny guy, but he was no genius, hell he was pretty average.
Yet the same Obito, in 2 years, managed to:
-gain enormous knowledge on seals
-Managing to control the Kyuubi with a 3 tomoe Sharingan, a feat that only Madara Uchiha can apparently do
-Making a contract with Kyuubi
-Having knowledge, skills and abilities that no normal ninja can have, associating him to Madara once again.
-Having superior abilities than Yondaime, someone hailed as the greatest prodigy of his era, matching him in combat while controlling the Kyuubi at the same time
-Already making plans for Infinite Tsukuyomi, so gaining knowledge on Rikudou Sennin and the Juubi, knowledge being long forgotten
And in only four years we've seen Naruto go from an F student who couldn't execute the basic ninjutsu (shadow clones) to a character who has surpassed pretty much the entire Narutoverse sans maybe, maybe three characters. This was a failure. Who became a legend. In four years. Let me play that back. Naruto, who used to be the equivalent of a dropout has long surpassed Jiraiya and Minato and has, at this point, been compared to Rikudou Sennin himself by several characters in only four years. Think about that.
I'lil explain. Orochimaru gets hashirama cells and madara cells given to him by madara and begins extensive experimentation. Anyway, while their final aims are not seemingly compatible the experiments and their results fully serve the aspirations and desires of both madara and orochimaru. If tobi owes his existence more to orochimaru than madara then its likely tobi was "a backorder"