No real indication Sasuke is a villain!

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Originally Posted by Lakritze

Hi there,

I've been searching the threads and I think what I wanna say here hasn't been spoken out explicitely yet.

When I tried to make up a possible end of the manga, I started to think what could happen to Sasuke since he is a criminal. I wanted to make a list of his crimes for starters. By then I realized that he did not commit any.

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That's completely ridiculous. Excuse me for my bluntness but, simply the entire proposition is false.

Foremost, Sasuke is a ningen. Shinobi law would dictate that Sasuke is officially a criminal, with the punishment most commonly greeted with death. He is a ningen and thus is the fate of all ningen. Sasuke joined up with the Akatsuki, an S-class terrorist organization that threatened both the well being and military structure of the Great Nations. Likewise, the fate of a terrorist is death. Sasuke deliberately attacked Killer Bee, the protector of the Cloud Village. Such is the provocative declaration of war, and war is met with death. Sasuke deserves no more or less. Not to mention Sasuke's attack on the Kage summit and murder of Danzo, the Village leader of Konoha. And yet somehow he has committed no apparent crimes against the Shinobi world?

That isn't simply wrong. It's delusional.

Sasuke in the psychological spectrum is all but protagonistic. His intents are villainous, antagonistic, and inimical. He has stated time and time again that he wishes to dispose Konoha of all its shinobi, women and children. How does this not showcase or indicate that Sasuke is the villain, or rather a current antagonist in the story? He has committed countless crimes, coldly murdered people, and simply attempts to do more and do it greater in magnitude. His goals lie with the current arbiter antagonist in Tobi, and those of his association are antagonistic in their own right.

Sasuke is considered to be well beyond redemption in the Shinobi world, and if he comes out of the current world war alive, he will be killed if the Great nations have any say whatsoever in it. The only situation that can reap even a remotely probable ending would have Sasuke dead at the hands of Naruto or something of the like. Even if we assume we receive some unfounded happy turnaround from Sasuke in the future, he certainly isn't living peacefully as a civilian after the world war is over. He will be greeted with death. Should he survive the war, the outcome is practically inevitable.

Naruto attempting to come up with reasons to justify Sasuke's behavior will simply end up becoming moot. So Sasuke saw his parents die. Such a thing occurs all of the time in the world of Shinobi. So the Konoha Elders ordered the destruction his clan. Should it be mentioned that the Uchiha were planning to do the exact same thing to numerous other clans? Granted that it is quite tragic in nature, it still does not give Sasuke leeway for the crimes he has committed, and the many more he will commit should he get his way. The world doesn't pander to a child's wishes like that. Slaughtering a village and becoming associated with a terrorist organization isn't justifiable in any form of thinking. Sasuke will not just be greeted with punishment. To reiterate: He will be greeted with death. Speaking subjectively, perhaps Sasuke would have been more understandable if he, as a result of the event, had a life of nothing but enduring and feeling the pain of losing his brethren. He hadn't. He had established friendships, experienced peace and happiness, and had a future as a promising ninja in a relatively tranquil village. He even had a chance to become a hero for Konoha. What Sasuke needs to realize is that "The way of the shinobi is a harsh one." It doesn't and shouldn't pander to his will.

Sasuke's Crimes.

Sasuke departed Konoha without leave (AWOL) and Joined a known criminal, Orochimaru
Sasuke Joined a known criminal organization, Akatsuki
Sasuke assaulted K.Bee, an official of a foreign country, as a missing nin
Sasuke (probably) killed a Cloud scout
Sasuke Attacked all five Kages
Sasuke Assaulted Raikage and Cost him an arm
Sasuke (probably) killed some Samurais
Sasuke killed an Official Hokage/Hokage candidate

Are these criminal acts? YES!
Do these make him a villain? YOU DECIDE

Sasuke doesn't consider the implications of his actions. What did Sasuke imagine Orochimaru would do once he had possessed Sasuke's (more powerful) body? Sasuke said himself that he didn't care what happened, as long as he got his revenge on Itachi. What did Sasuke believe Tobi would do once he handed over the Hachibi? Did Sasuke ever consider that helping the Akatasuki gather all of the tailed beasts might be a terrible idea? Same with attacking Bee/the Kage Summit... these actions put Konoha in a difficult position; the Raikage can always say it was a Konoha missing-nin that Konoha refused to execute that was responsible for these attacks. But of course, Sasuke no longer cares about that! He's dead-set on going against his (obsessively) beloved older brother by killing everyone in Konoha.

I wonder if Sasuke is in some warped way trying to imitate Itachi by experiencing the same suffering and self-loathing... maybe he won't feel like a true man until he kills everyone he used to love. And like Itachi, he has one person whom he's never been able to bring himself to kill. I think, deep down, Sasuke probably wants to be judged for his crimes by Naruto, a former teammate and brother, just like Itachi wanted to be judged by Sasuke. That desire to be judged, and the ability to experience self-loathing, are basically the last shreds of Sasuke's former self underneath what he's become (I suppose the love for his brother counts, but that's even more warped). Of course, it's this concept of justice/revenge that Naruto has already forsaken, so Sasuke's probably going to have to face Naruto's style of justice and pay for his crimes via redemption (which will be more difficult than quietly dying).

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Originally Posted by Rlinfamous

Sasuke doesn't consider the implications of his actions. What did Sasuke imagine Orochimaru would do once he had possessed Sasuke's (more powerful) body? Sasuke said himself that he didn't care what happened, as long as he got his revenge on Itachi. What did Sasuke believe Tobi would do once he handed over the Hachibi? Did Sasuke ever consider that helping the Akatasuki gather all of the tailed beasts might be a terrible idea? Same with attacking Bee/the Kage Summit... these actions put Konoha in a difficult position; the Raikage can always say it was a Konoha missing-nin that Konoha refused to execute that was responsible for these attacks. But of course, Sasuke no longer cares about that! He's dead-set on going against his (obsessively) beloved older brother by killing everyone in Konoha.

I wonder if Sasuke is in some warped way trying to imitate Itachi by experiencing the same suffering and self-loathing... maybe he won't feel like a true man until he kills everyone he used to love. And like Itachi, he has one person whom he's never been able to bring himself to kill. I think, deep down, Sasuke probably wants to be judged for his crimes by Naruto, a former teammate and brother, just like Itachi wanted to be judged by Sasuke. That desire to be judged, and the ability to experience self-loathing, are basically the last shreds of Sasuke's former self underneath what he's become (I suppose the love for his brother counts, but that's even more warped). Of course, it's this concept of justice/revenge that Naruto has already forsaken, so Sasuke's probably going to have to face Naruto's style of justice and pay for his crimes via redemption (which will be more difficult than quietly dying).

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look sasuke is a noob, and he got completely lost when he found out itachi wasnt in the wrong completely and the uchiha clan itself were trying to revolt.

I think Kishimoto delivers an image of a world where hereos can become villians, and villians can become heroes. Its like there is not even a thin line between black and white at all, its just life and death. What Sasuke is right now doesnt matter bcs his life changes every instant, just like now that he is helping Itachi to actually do a good deed for the Shinobi Alliance (even if his real intentions are purely selfish).

I must agree with what Jirayia said - "who you are is defined in a moment of your death". If Sasuke is to die before the end of this manga, then the way how he dies will define the entirety of his character. IMO I still believe that Sasuke is too integral to die in the upcoming events. Yet I also believe that, almost without a doubt, Naruto will somehow ignite the good old Sasuke back .. and something like that surely requires a big sacrifice.

ofc sasuke is a villain, there is no doubt about, by saying that there is no real indication that sasuke is a villain, is like saying hitler wasnt a villain either bcoz he never actually killed ppl, and we all know that he was about as bad as they come. ill make things clear, sasuke is a bad guy that can only be redeemed by him making a heroic sacrifice in some way, and that would be the only way to redeem him in my mind, bcoz if he lives he would be hunted down anyway and naruto never actually said that he would bring sasuke back to the village alive, just that he would bring him back, so it is a definite possibility that sasuke will die but we'll see how things pan out.