Great thread, but i think your underestimating Minatos age at time of death, and overestimating Hirzuens age at the time he became Hokage. I cant remember the page chapter, but there is a flashback of the founding of Konoha in which Hiruzen looks really young when trained by Hashirama and Tobirama. By this timeline he would have been twelve and he looked 7-8 max. For Minato, we know he died before 30, but to say he was 21 is too young. I would guess 25-26, i know he was a genius but I dont think he was that powerful at only 21.
Thanks but first thing we have to recognize is Kishi is not so great with the math but that is partially because some of this he adds as he goes along.
Originally Posted by EliteKage
- A perfect example is the statement made by Sasori at the end of part 1 that it is the first time that Akatsuki members all gathered togther in 7 years since Orochimaru left. Quick math can tell you Itachi being 18 in part 1 would only be 11 which is majhor problem. We know Orochimaru left Akatsuki because he failed to get Itachi meaning Itachi was already in Akatsuki & Itachi joined Akatsuki after massacring the clan when he was 13 at the time so that is a perfect example of Kishi slightly contradicting his own facts with numbers.
- Another example is during the Kakashi gaiden 1st page it says 10 years ago from part 1 when we know the Kakashi gaiden took place when Kakashi was 13 so it had to be at least 14 years ago as Naruto wasnt even born then.
This is not too bash Kishi but just showing that it is possible with a manga this huge some small details can be overlooked causing some confusion.
Its very possible Kishi's 60 years ago could be slightly off but it has been mentioned so many times in the story and databooks that I felt i should just leave that one alone this time. To be fair you include the time skip it would be closer too 63 years.
Also Quick fact check Hiruzen was 68 at death so that would mean simple math he was 5-8 years old when the village was formed which fits perfectly into that picture of him training with the 1st and 2nd timeline wise.
- Why are you so surprised that Minato who was labeled a once in generation genius was able to become so powerful at a young age? Itachi died at 21 and he was stronger than Orochimaru, but granted he had a bloodlimit. Sasori at 15 years old killed the most powerful Kazekage in the history of the sand. Killer B mastered the 8 tails when he was about 18 and yes we know that from the flashbacks. KB is 35 we learned that from Motoi as KB was chosen as the 8 tailed host 30 years ago when he was 5 and then he faced off against Minato with his brother Ay during the end of the 3rd ninja war just before Minato became the official 4th Hokage and ay became the 4th Raikage which would have been 17-18 years ago.
Minato was no ordinary ninja that's why he became so powerful so young at best i would say Minato was 21-24.
Okay I adjusted the timeline so it starts at -63 years to take into account the time skip.
It may seems wierd that the Leaf went without a decided Kage for almost 2 years but you have to take into account a few things.
- The ninja villages were all new and working out the details of how best to operate.
- The first year(-63) they spent most of the time internally focused and building the physical village would take time. Also Recruiting clans to join their alliance and settle in the village also took time. That's why I suspect the first year was most internalized with very little foreign relations as other villages where doing the same trying to get the best clans and construct defenses and living spaces for their community.
- The 2nd year(-62) as things being to stabilize they began to focus outwardly with Foreign affairs. Hashirama becomes the 1st Hokage & probably captured some of the Tailed beasts during this time period. Hashirama probably made contact with a lot of other villages and assures them there will be peace. Internally they began focusing on training the next generation.
- The 3rd year(-61) Madara trying to make himself stand out acts as the self-declared Secretary of State of the Leaf goes about with his own domestic foreign policy trying to intimidate the Earth village into submission (Confrontation with Oonoki & Muu). This fails and creates negative backlash against the Leaf. Madara tries to rally the Uchiha behind him but they refuse and reject him.
this time line matches the Madara's statement about "that brat" however how he managed it is a mystery...
Originally Posted by POW
but now i am curious about another thing.... if your time line be considered right then at age 19 when Kisame's incident occured Itachi was 8 years old right ? While when Minato fought Tobi at that time Itachi was 5 years old. Interesting conflict is that at that time Tobi was like he is today but right after 3 years when he met Kisame he had a changed hair style like that closest to Edo Madara. This is odd if we are not missing anything in the time line coz I haven't seen anybody else changing either clothes or style in the whole Naruto series.
Another thing that stirkes me is that Tobi hide his hands and seems a lot like black Zetsu if you ask me, however the person in Kisame's flashback seemed much human to me...!!
Yeah that is true Tobi had long hair meeting Kisame, short hair vs Minato and long hair in the Itachi meeting flashback. The most simple straightforward answer is it's just hair so sometimes he grows it out other times he gets a haircut.
It may be that simple as he changes mask styles too so it may be for personal aesthetic reasons Tobi likes to change it up every now and then. How many years can he wear the same hairstyle and not get bored with it.
* I hope we get to see the Tobi flashbacks as soo much will be revealed.
- On a side note originally I thought Zabuza tried to kill Yagura but after thinking about it it makes more sense he would try and kill Mei. The Mist village went through a transition from the brutal policies under the Tobi influenced Yagura (4th) to the more soft polices of Mei(5th).
To someone like Zabuza who grow up and thrived under the bloody mist era Mei must have looked like a soft target that would make the Mist weak. Hence why he may have decided to go after her.
After what happened with Yagura security around the new Mizukage would have been on high alert hence why Zabuza likely failed.
*Also a key factor is Ao who gained the Byakugan years ago and battled Shisui when he was alive with that Dojutsu. Hence he was also the one who found out about the Genjutsu on Yagura(4th).
@ pic: lolzz thats ironically true and comically funny :P
however if it happens to be so much simple as changing hairstyle i might be a little disappointed :P how come only Tobi has sense of fashion to him :P
hell yeah Tobi needs to leak out his memoirs now..... Naruto vs Tobi is the perfect stage but it looks like we will have Hashirama vs Madara and Uchiha masacre flashback first ?
you might be right but still Zabuza would have like a challenging task wouldn't he ? perhaps he also didn't liked the blood mist training in heart either ?
Updated time line with new info from Chapter 583.
In chapter 583, Danzou's Right eye and Right arm are already Bandaged, Yet at this Time, Shisui and Itachi were about 4 years old, and Danzou could not have received Shisui's right eye yet.
It's either Kishi flubbed or Danzo's eye bandage was for some other reason than Shisui's eye. It's entirely possible that Old Cockroach Danzou, was stealing eyes long before Shisui Showed up, and the arm could already have had Hashirama's DNA in it by then. No doubt Orochimaru had Danzou's Blessing or complicity in his experiments.
Originally Posted by paulbee
Danzou was missing an eye even when he partnered with Hanzou during the 2nd Ninja War so thats an old injury. There are lots of shinobi who use bandages for various reasons.
You're right. I'd like to compliment your effort in developing this thread. Well Done.
Originally Posted by POW