can we be sure this tobi person is an authentic Uchiha? i mean he's seems quite comfortable using other's ocular powers, rinnegan and sharingan alike without apparent chakra drawbacks ( maybe the shodai genes help him there) this week's chapter just mind f*ck me
sorry guys, as a new poster i neglected the naruto's theory section and created a new thread =[ please see my "Tobi vs Madara" thread for related discussion that I should have put here. sorry for the mistake but I am going to make the quick mention that I believe Madara split prior to his fight with Hashirama or Right as the killing blow was struck. Muu is the perfect illustrational counterpart to Madara in every way and that is why the manga has focused on muu, his splitting technique, and his quick yet strange relationship with his sealed counterpart. I'll go one further and say that the fact the manga mentioned "Muu's ancestors developed the technique" implies Madara's time period and dealings between Madara and Muu's clan. Important things are not mentioned in a good story for reasons merely arbitrary and all this happening the very chapters immediately prior to "Kabuto's Trump Card"!!
If a zetsu clone is really Tobi then one thin doesn't make sense to me. Remember after Itachi and sasuke's fight when Zetsu (The black and white one) came to report to Tobidara that the fight was over and they had to go there, Zetsu was complaining about how he couldn't keep up with Tobidara's speed. If he was just a zetsu clone why is it that one zetsu will find it hard to keep up with the other. I say Tobidara is anything but a zetsu clone. I don't like the Izuna idea but I will prefer that to be a plausible explanation than him being a Zetsu clone but if I had to guess I will say he is a split of the original Madara himself.
Originally Posted by paulbee
Going by the Zetsu clone idea, the difference-maker would be the Sharingan. :)
Originally Posted by Don.D.Bulky
This one is even better:
Originally Posted by Arbitrary
Muu is from the same era, as Madara. They May have met. If so madara may have obtained the splitting in two technique from Muu.
The Madara who fought Hashirama could have been a Split or Half Madara. This Madara was injured by Hashirama (this explains how Tobi says that the wounds from the battle with Hashirama made him powerless, or something like that).
Tobi Now Merges with a Zetsu Clone, a) to get Hashirama's power, b) To replace parts lost in the battle.
Madara has a problem, he can't Re-Merge with himself given that Tobi contains Hashirama and plant parts, and he can't get a Rinnegan without merging with himself and Hashirama. Madara solves this problem by Raisung Nagato to weild the Rinnegan.
Madara may have given Nagato his own original eyes as the seed, but that doesn't explain how he died. Madara gives up all the chakra in his Half body to provide spiritual energy to Nagato. The Combination of Uzumaki+Sharingan+ Uchiha Chakra causes the Rinnegan to form...Hence Madara "Gave" the Rinnegan to Nagato
Edo Nagato has a Rinnegan because Edo Zombies come back with everything they had when they were alive, even the clothes and weapons on them..Clothes and weapons contain no DNA, so the the Edo Tensei must be more versatile than we originally thought.
Now Edo Madara was expecting to be Rinne Tensei ...not Edo Tensei, also Tobidara Expected Nagato to use RinneTensei for Madara's benefit...This all means that Nagato had an agreement to use Rinne Tensei to bring back Madara. Nagato knew that Madara was dead, yet he called Tobi Madara. This implies that Nagato knew Madara was split into two.
Finally, Tobidara told Kakashi that his goal was to be complete. I interprete that to mean that he wants to Re-Merge with himself, plus Hashirama's body type Using none other technique than IZANAGI (Rinne-Izanagi, not the Sharingan version).
Okay, this theory seems complete and logical to me (as of writing), I could change my mind though. But for now it seems to make sense this way.
When tobi first saw the 6th coffin it took him abit of time to pick on the fact hes madara. IF tobi is izuna his borther you'd think he would recongise him alot faster then he did.
Tobi seemed to recoginse him as slow as muu did.
This all very weird to me still, Tobi reaction reaction to madara still seems not quite right.
unless Tobi is the remnant of a soulless Madara, in which kabuto's blackmail is perfect since how can Tobi ever become completed or reunite with his soul if kabuto has possession of it.
Originally Posted by psukkar
Actually it just came to me,
Madara having a son being tobi could explain basiclly all of this.
Kabuto's blackmail was simple. Tobi needs Madara's soul and body to become complete. Rinne Tensei was supposed to return Madara to his body. Kabuto found the Body.
The Blackmail is: Tobi Back off or I'll do something Harmfull to Madara's Body, or to Madara's Soul (wipe out his personality?). I am not sure yet that Kabuto can make Madara obey him. That would be interesting to discover....
I agree with paulbee's theory for the most part, but I'm inclined to believe Tobi is a different soul that has possessed Madara's true body. Not only has he said, "I guess you can call me a shell of my former self," but I'm just not buying the idea that a zetsu clone could make use of a bloodline limit, highly advanced time/space jutsu, nor could a Zetsu clone somehow acquire all of Madara's knowledge. We saw from the battlefield that some of those Zetsu clones that borrow identities didn't know squat about the people they possessed (remember that shlub who got squashed by Sakura outside the medical tent?) Why, then, would a Madara clone be able to recount all of Madara's memories?
Tobi may well have been one of Madara's own creations, designed with the extra-long-term intention of reviving himself in the case that his battle with the First Hokage went sour. He apparently had some pre-existing knowledge of Nagato, and Tobi is aware of having implanted Rinnegan in him as a boy.
As we know, Edo Tensei doesn't necessarily require the body at all. It only requires the DNA, which can be acquired in any number of ways. One possibility is that, if Tobi is using Madara's body, and Kabuto knew, then Kabuto could have acquired Madara's DNA during his time working with Akatsuki. Tobi might have left something that could be used.
Assuming that Tobi is using Madara's body, it still leaves the question of whose soul has possessed the body (and gave it that lame haircut).