Tobi's identity analysed

Just thought someone should look at the recent shock in 559 regarding edo tensei madara with all the info we have.

As much as I hate to say this, it appears that it's HIGHLY likely that Tobi is madara's brother,Izuna. Dispite this I still believe Madara HAS AND WILL PLAY A BIG ROLE AS A MAJOR VILLAIN IN THE STORY as I feel Tobi and Madara have made plans to reunite and take over the world.

Spoiler!

Tobi wanted Nagato to use rinne tensei for his purposes, we didnt know what that was but with Madara now thinking initally he was revived by nagato's rinne tensei it appears Tobi wanted to revive his brother Madara all along. Very important to note that madara wasnt pleased that he was revived under the nototion of it being Nagato, showing that he must have feared that Nagato could have gone rogue and deviated from tobi and his plans. Last chapter Madara was talking about a person that had plans for his revieval which didnt quite go right. Kabuto steps in and tells him he is the one controlling these summons and that he was this person's assitant. Both madara and kabuto are talking about tobi I guess so this just adds to the mystery of tobi.

But Kabuto has ruined tobi and madara's plan, looks like tobi is rushing to Madara right now to make sure Kabuto doesnt turn madara against him. And we understand why Tobi was shocked to the point of calling kabuto a madman because how Kabuto got MADARA's DNA now is A MAJOR TALKING POINT. I can only assume Orocihmaru will play a role in his from the past afterall he was obessed with the sharingan so why not try and find the greatest uchiha to ever live, makes sense to me. Orocihmaru has already graved robbed hasihrama's body why not Madara aswell. Making me wonder what Orocihmaru's true goals really were.

Very important thing to note is the era of madara's death as this too is strong evidence that Madara and his borther tobi have made plans to take over the world. Since Madara knows about Nagato and rinne tensei that means Madara died around the time when Madara was pretending to be the muzikage. The hair styles match aswell of edo tensei madara and madara behind the muzikage when he first meet kisame. But all the way through this time Tobi was also alive at some capacity remember he wouldnt have regained his eyes probably until Madara gave them back to him during his final hours. Tobi(pretending to madara) said he did take hasihrama's cells, so with Hasihrama cells I can easily see how both Madara and his brother Tobi have stayed alive as long as they did.

Also some portions of the confession to Sasuke about Madara's actions in the past by Tobi is also VERY important to note. Tobi(pretending to be madara) said he didnt take his brother's eyes BY FORCE, now I totally belive this and during this time Tobi clenched his fist in anger when it was suggested Madara stole his brothers eyes. And it makes prefect sense why Tobi has a big grudge on konoha and the uchiha like Madara did because when Madara took his brother's eyes the clans uchiha and senju made a truce and the sacrfice was in vain. Not to mention Tobi's more recent actions being the Fox attack on konoha and his dealings with itachi/danzo to wipe out the uchiha clan.

Another thing that is making this very belieable is how much Tobi knows about konoha,uchiha, senju,rinnegan,so6p and more importantly Hasihrama. Not to mention jutsu in general, we see Tobi being incrediblly well knowable in jutsu. Also out of the abilties we have seen Tobi use his strong genjutsu skills relates back to the Sharingan and the Uchiha. Also Tobi talking over the fox against minato is a clear sign Tobi was once a MS user but more importantly that Tobi is an Uchiha and a strong one. Also all that Tobi talk about being a former shell of his former self fits in with Tobi being Izuna as he gave his eyes to Madara and weakened as a result.

At this point Tobi has fooled everyone including both Minato and Itachi quite well, because pretending to be a dead man's brother is a hard cover to break if you dont know much about Madara to begin with. For example if Tobirama and Hasihrama were alive Tobi wouldnt have fooled them as they know Madara all too well as they are all in the same era. Even Onki being as old as the third hokage was inaitally very surprised Madara was still alive at the kage summit, but even he had to accept it as true dispite actually fighting Madara. I feel Madara fought Onaki around the time Madara was controling the Muzikage. In fact next chapter PLAY CLOSE ATTENDTION TO WHAT ONKI COMMENTS ON MADARA'S MOVEMENTS AND SKILLS.

The only other people I can tolerate Tobi being is the so6p older son because the motive is still there, putting aside how likely this is if you know what I mean. Also Tobi may well be a previous Uchiha clan leader before Madara and Izuna took over. Hell he could even be Nagato with that "I gave nagato the rinnegan" talk. Tobi could even be a someone shape shifted into some else, one of the unquie powers of the rinnegan that hasnt been revisted since Nagato used the technique with Kisame and Itachi. Important to note that this allows the shape shifed being to use bloodline limits.

When it comes to this matter there's one thing that must be constant about who Tobi is and thats MOTIVE for this actions. It has to be someone that hates the so6p's younger son(eg,senju), likes amassing power and wants to take over the world. Also it has to be someone wise meaning old to be as knowledgeable as Tobi has shown about matters that a clearly before everyones time in the current timeline.

Althought I'm not loving this plot twist, on the birght side at least we get to see Madara fight and his EMS. Which will shed some light on the Madara vs Hasihrama fight which is another MAJOR issue that needs to addressed by kishi 10 TIMES OVER lol.

Why can't Tobi be a Zetsu Clone of Madara, charged with Using the Rinnegan to Revive the Original. As we see, Zetsu clones have all the abilities of the original., and it would be a simple matter for Madara to imbue the clone with his mental energies.

I just have a huge problem with pulling Izuna's name out of literaly nowhere for this purpose, when there are other viable hints.

Tobi claims to be Madara...Why would Izuna do that?
Itachi Identifies him to be Madara
Minato identifies him as Madara

As a Zetsu Clone (which he is at least partially is, he could be Madara, and still want to Revive through Rinne Tensei, the original.
Finally, Remember how Tobis answered Kakashi's question to him about what are his goals? He said he wanted to be complete. The Zetsu Clone partial Madara wants to be made whole by reviving and reuniting (physically?) with the Original, using the Rinnegan.

I think this is the most direct answer so far, until Kishi throws in another curve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paulbee

Why can't Tobi be a Zetsu Clone of Madara, charged with Using the Rinnegan to Revive the Original. As we see, Zetsu clones have all the abilities of the original., and it would be a simple matter for Madara to imbue the clone with his mental energies.

I just have a huge problem with pulling Izuna's name out of literaly nowhere for this purpose, when there are other viable hints.

Tobi claims to be Madara...Why would Izuna do that?
Itachi Identifies him to be Madara
Minato identifies him as Madara

As a Zetsu Clone (which he is at least partially is, he could be Madara, and still want to Revive through Rinne Tensei, the original.
Finally, Remember how Tobis answered Kakashi's question to him about what are his goals? He said he wanted to be complete. The Zetsu Clone partial Madara wants to be made whole by reviving and reuniting (physically?) with the Original, using the Rinnegan.

I think this is the most direct answer so far, until Kishi throws in another curve.

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zetsu clones cant use bloodline lmits like the sharingan. And tobi has used the sharingan against the fox.

What if Madara transplanted one of his eyes to the Tobi Zetsu Clone. That would make sense. And the reason, Tobi couldn't use MS is that he doesn't have the other pair.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monte.Teacher

What if Madara transplanted one of his eyes to the Tobi Zetsu Clone. That would make sense. And the reason, Tobi couldn't use MS is that he doesn't have the other pair.

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that could work,

but I hope this doesnt come down to zetsu. Kishi using zetsu like a mr fix it. It would be lame.

Yeah, when it comes to storytelling, it would be better if Tobi was Izuna.

One of the greater questions is why did Madara die?

A person revived by Edo Tensei revives in a similar condition shortly before death just as Nagato died with white hair and crippled so he was revived just as that. So take clear notice of Madara's revived condition he looks to be in perfect physical health no missing arms, his body appears to be relativity in mint condition even his youthful look considering he would have been in his 80's or 90's around the time of Nagato. He may be missing one eye as his hair is in the way so we can not see completely.

My feeling is that Madara was dying of a disease even though he managed to cheat death for so long there was something he couldn't escape and he came up with a plan to revive himself. As soon as he was revived he mentions Nagato having grown up as if he expected to be revived. Tobi mentions after Nagato's death that he eventually expected Nagato to use his revival ability for him.

This leads me to think Madara purposely had himself sealed away by the Rinnegan Lord Enma so he could be revived later. Kabuto had a similar plan to use Edo Nagato Soul sealing power of Enma on Naruto & KB then revive them later.


Also as was mentioned Madara's different Hairstyles long hair vs short may also be a clue as to when they changed roles. However clearly Madara knows Nagato but based on his description of him he died when Nagato was still young.



In any case Moving on to Tobi there are a lot of direction this could go and based on his comments to Konan I think Kishi has given us enough clues to figure it out.

- The easy one would be he is simply Izuna, Madara's younger brother but something tells me this may be to easy

- The other possibility is he could be a Madara/Zetsu clone imbued with his will to carry out Madara's goals while he waits to be revived. The fact that he does not use any jutsu other than his eye powers and constantly replaces his arms like his body is a Temporary part suggest there may be some truth t it.

- The 3rd and other option is he is the Elder son of Sage of the 6 paths who found a way to seal his soul inside the Secret 6 Sage tablet that was in possession of the Uchiha. Madara was the first to obtain EMS and found a way to revive him using a proxy body using Zetsu and his own DNA to place his soul into and thus Tobi was born.

*Look at Tobi's Swirl mask it looks just like the eye pattern of the Elder sons dojutsu. The fact he shares some of Madara's genetics in his physical body may be why he retains some of his memories.

*Also the number #1 reason why he may be the Elder son was the comment he made to Konan that Nagato's Rinnegan was originally his to begin with. If he was the Elder son of the Rikudou sage he may have seen the Rinnegan as his inheritance from his father thus his property before it became Nagato's inheritance.


The truth behind everything is he may be the ultimate master mind even behind Madara Uchiha in that Madara needed his knowledge to make use of the Tailed Beasts. Tobi used Madara to some extent to further his goals and his goal for reviving Madara may have been to use his body as some kind of final host form.



Compare:

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/555...suuchihaan.png Elder Son Dojutsu

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4...madaramask.jpg Tobi mask

Also on a side note when trying to figure out how Kabuto got a hold of Madara's DNA...I think the obvious answer is Nagato had his body sealed away so when he revived Nagato he gained access to Madara's original body and chose to revive him using Edo Tensei in order to gain control over him.

IDK, I just dislike the Izuna solution, because it would have nothing in the story to back it up, except that Izuna existed gave his eyes (lor had them stolen), and then died.

If he were a Zetsu clone with Sharingans possesing Madara's Chakra, he'd be able to control the fox and use MS techniques. Plus the reason we never saw Madara's own EMS could explain how he "Gave the Rinnegan" to Nagato, He could have implanted them into baby Nagato and had him incubate them into Rinnegans. So how come Nagato Revived with Rinnegans?, well Edo Zombies come back as they were just before they died, that must be literal, otherwise they should all arrive NAKED.

Now I admit I could be wrong, Tobi could be anybody previously mentioned, I just prefer something that makes sense given the story as it has evolved.

To make my point, Tobi could even be Madara's son seeking to avenge his Father. See when we depart from known story, then he could even be Bugs Bunny.

Edo Madara looks like the Madara who fought the first hokage. At the same time he knew Nagato. As POW said edo summons looks like the state of the person when they died. I'm not too sure about Nagato's age but isn't there a big gap of time there? Madara's age looks the same when he met Nagato and fought Hashirama.

I'll throw the possibility out there that Madara's eye has granted him eternal youth. When he did actually died, his one eye transferred to masked Madara with all his memory and some power.