How did the 1st Hokage defeat Uchiha Madara?

What i would like to know is did madara or even the uchiha/senju in general for that matter, know about the curse of their families or were they all unaware? Or is it something madar found out about afterwards.

I would like to think that if they did in fact know, then madara and hashiramas relationship might have been like the relationship naruto and sasuke are going to have for a while. I don't think and I hope that there won't just be one battle between sasuke and naruto. Only because it seems sasuke isn't going to turn around so soon, and it's going to take more then one battle before naruto and sasuke can understand eachother through their fists. If they indeed do have simliar relationships, that must be why madara respected and admired hashirama so much. They had a lot of time to get to understand eachother.

Only unlike madara and hashirama, naruto and sasuke will bring the feud of the families to rest.

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Originally Posted by Afro Thunda

The info about Madara talking about his past is all you need cuz that's when he talks about when he encountered the 1st. You didn't have to take anything literally. It was all in the manga for you. Here's the pages you want to look at.

Spoiler!

http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/398/018.jpg

Spoiler!

http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/398/019.jpg

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http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/399/002.jpg

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http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/399/003.jpg

I won't get in to what MS techniques Madara had since I don't believe he had the same techniques as Itachi and Sasuke. But if he did have the same MS techniques as them, then at least for Amaterasu, the 1st could just use his Wood element or even Earth element to defend against that. Wouldn't know how the 1st got around Susano though unless he just waited until Madara exhausted his chakra.

I know the purpose of this thread. I even put the circumstances of the fight in a realistic (albeit, a very simplified) perspective. Also, I don't think anybody in this thread is doubting that the 1st won back then....

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The first page you put in, he was just talking about the era and how he gained his powers over that time.

The pages where he starts to talk about the events leading up the final fight with the hokage starts the second page you put in. He mentions he fought him and got famous.

Then he states, the Uchiha clan's enemies grew after he became well known for fighting the senju. Then he took his brothers eyes to protect his clan. Then the truce from the senju came and finally the fight at the VotE.

He can't have had EMS before taking his brother's eyes. This how I came up with the conclusion the first didn't know about the ems until they had their fight at the VotE. That said they could have fought before the truce and after he took he brother's eyes. Only a detailed flashback/gaiden/movie can tell us for sure.

He found a way to seal away his power. Which is why Madara is not at full strength. He probably died in the process so it may have only been assumed Madara died off. Or he could have defeated Madara and Madara made it seem like he was killed and ran off. We have not seen all of Madara he could have lost one of his eyes in the process and thats why he is not at his full power. I think he was badly injured and died after he returned because the nature of the battle was considered a victory, however this goes with the theme of dieing to protect the village.

They seemed evenly matched even with EMS so part of me wonders if they had fought near a draw, but we do know Madara is not at full strength and losing it at this battle makes the most sense how considering all we know Izanagi is the best reason for this and the 1st would be the only one to force him to do this. I think the 1st was badly hurt and maybe he knew Madara was still alive and in his own humiliation Madara agreed to leave the village and not to return and the 1st just said he was dead

Does anyone got the imprison from the picture where 1st and madara were fighting, that madara has a wind type chakra...he was allways seen with some kind of a fan with him...any ideas?

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Originally Posted by Raf

Does anyone got the imprison from the picture where 1st and madara were fighting, that madara has a wind type chakra...he was allways seen with some kind of a fan with him...any ideas?

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The fan is the symbol of the Uchiha Clan. It represents the way they're able control the Fire element.

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Originally Posted by Afro Thunda

The fan is the symbol of the Uchiha Clan. It represents the way they're able control the Fire element.

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An Uchiwa to be precise. Its where the clan gets there name its a fan used to increase the intensity of flames. Also where the phrase fanning the flames comes from.

i wont be surprise if later on reveal that the first wasnt actually defeat madara on one on one fight... he maybe fight madara alongside the 2nd hokage, the 3rd hokage relative, and the strongest representative of every clan in konoha (including the strongest of the hyuuga back then)..
cause we see konoha people and also every other ninja in the naruto-verse are often do that, they say naruto and kakashi kill hidan and kakuzu and forget about shikamaru, ino, chouji... they say sasuke kill haku and zabuza and forget about kakashi, naruto and sakura.. etc..

and btw... i cant remember a konoha shinobi fight one on one against a formidable enemy and win... last time i remember jiraiya fight pain... jiraiya lost and die...

And we have another Madara lie...
Yes I stole my brother's eyes, but it was to protect the village....
No he gave me his eyes.
Yes I murdered my brother and took his eyes...
Geeze make up your mind on which story your telling to the same person.....

Its pretty obvious that the First was the top dog of his time with Madara being second or close to second on the list. Madara had EMS before his final battle that he lost against the First where everyone believed he had died. One of the reasons cited by the Uchiha for not siding with him over the Hokage issue was that the Uchiha clan believed Madara stole his brothers eyes for power. Plus we really don't know what EMS does other then keep you from going blind, possibly saving you from being killed by MS and possibly giving you a new technique maybe.

Amaterasu is easily dodged, Tsukiyomi can be stopped as evidenced by Sasuke's gimpy version that does not alter the target's perception of time which was actually the skill of Itachi using genjutsu as opposed to an ability of Tsukiyomi. Susano kills its user and unless your Itachi having slapped on the Sword and Mirror can be damaged with powerful enough jutsu. Of course Madara could have entirely different MS techniques...

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Originally Posted by slavkovski

i wont be surprise if later on reveal that the first wasnt actually defeat madara on one on one fight... he maybe fight madara alongside the 2nd hokage, the 3rd hokage relative, and the strongest representative of every clan in konoha (including the strongest of the hyuuga back then)..
cause we see konoha people and also every other ninja in the naruto-verse are often do that, they say naruto and kakashi kill hidan and kakuzu and forget about shikamaru, ino, chouji... they say sasuke kill haku and zabuza and forget about kakashi, naruto and sakura.. etc..

and btw... i cant remember a konoha shinobi fight one on one against a formidable enemy and win... last time i remember jiraiya fight pain... jiraiya lost and die...

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Madara would have no reason not to include any of that in his story if what you said was true. It would be a huge detail in Konoha's history that would have been missed as well. Such a huge gathering of Ninja just to stop one Uchiha wouldn't just be stricken from the Konoha History Books and forgotten. Also, that would mean we're making the 1st out to be more badass than he really was. Why would you want to say something like that, Slavkovski? So no, I'm gonna have to disagree with you and say it was a one-on-one fight to the death (2 on 1 if you want to count Madara's use of the Kyuubi).

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Originally Posted by Afro Thunda

Madara would have no reason not to include any of that in his story if what you said was true. It would be a huge detail in Konoha's history that would have been missed as well. Such a huge gathering of Ninja just to stop one Uchiha wouldn't just be stricken from the Konoha History Books and forgotten. Also, that would mean we're making the 1st out to be more badass than he really was. Why would you want to say something like that, Slavkovski? So no, I'm gonna have to disagree with you and say it was a one-on-one fight to the death (2 on 1 if you want to count Madara's use of the Kyuubi).

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lol... i'm not trying to say something bad about the 1st hokage, actually i'm sure he is a badass just like madara, it is more of a complain from me for kishi because i want to see at least naruto fight one on one with some badass ninja without any guidance from anyone at all... sasuke vs deidara style or shikamaru vs hidan (oh yeah i just remember this fight, so its not true konoha ninja never fight a strong enemy one on one and win.. at least for shikamaru... lol) style... cause i'm beginning to see some pattern about konoha ninja and naruto particularly if kishi keep this pattern on...