How did the 1st Hokage defeat Uchiha Madara?

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Originally Posted by Afro Thunda

It was left ambiguous as to exactly how many Bijuu the 1st had under his control before he distributed them across the Narutoverse. But using simple math, he had at least 5 for sure under his control back then. We just don't know if the 1st distributed them before or after the fight with Madara. I'm gonna assume they were handed out before the fight occurred though. If Madara was smart back then, that would have been the best time to initiate an attack on Konoha.



I don't think it was stated anywhere in the manga that the 1st kept 2 Bijuu under his control. But I would assume that he would have at least kept the Kyuubi for Konoha (if the Kyuubi was one of the Bijuu he had in his possession).

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It did said that, just can't find it anywhere going to have to read the whole manga all over again, gimme 3 days to find it. :P

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Originally Posted by Raymond Agustin

It did said that, just can't find it anywhere going to have to read the whole manga all over again, gimme 3 days to find it. :P

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dude its when Madara told Sasuke to get the 8 tails. They were all sitting around that table.

it is really simple of the 1st beat madara.. and that is because the 1st is one badassmotherfucker that you dont mess with. and madara tryed and got his ass handed to him

LOL not sure else how to describe it.

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Originally Posted by psukkar

The manga did show they did fight many times but that was before madara took he's brothers eyes. Then all we saw after that was the truce from the senju.

I guess it all depends how literally your willing to take the order of events shown in the Manga. Only reason I took them quite literally is because we don't have any other info apart from when he was talking to Sasuke about his past.

Mangekyo Sharingan techniques aren't are simple matter to counter, we've seen Tyksomi and very few people broke out of it. The black flames are an absolute joke, itachi used them to beat a fire technique. Using fire to beat fire is ridiculous so those black flames are clearly not normal so I doubt the first's water moves would do anything. Sussano is one of those absolute defense/attack but I think the first could have dealt with this. Also as stated by Itachi when u gain ems you get a NEW technique. And based from the techniques we've seen already it's most likely another voodoo technique.

This thread isn't trying to doubt the first winning, he won and I'm happy about it goes to show the sharingan can be beat. What mystifies me is what kind of powers did the first have, he must have been real BOSS, this thread is just trying to put the fight into a realistic perspective.

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The info about Madara talking about his past is all you need cuz that's when he talks about when he encountered the 1st. You didn't have to take anything literally. It was all in the manga for you. Here's the pages you want to look at.

Spoiler!

http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/398/018.jpg

Spoiler!

http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/398/019.jpg

Spoiler!

http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/399/002.jpg

Spoiler!

http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/399/003.jpg

I won't get in to what MS techniques Madara had since I don't believe he had the same techniques as Itachi and Sasuke. But if he did have the same MS techniques as them, then at least for Amaterasu, the 1st could just use his Wood element or even Earth element to defend against that. Wouldn't know how the 1st got around Susano though unless he just waited until Madara exhausted his chakra.

I know the purpose of this thread. I even put the circumstances of the fight in a realistic (albeit, a very simplified) perspective. Also, I don't think anybody in this thread is doubting that the 1st won back then....

Just to play Devil's Advocate, if Tobi is lying about his identity, then anything he said about the past may be lies, too.

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Originally Posted by kuroihikari

Just to play Devil's Advocate, if Tobi is lying about his identity, then anything he said about the past may be lies, too.

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Thats a really good point, because he did lie about about not framing the clan during the forth's fight with the fox. And that was during the very same convo when he brought up the whole fight with him and the first hokage.

Everyone in the manga knows that Hashirama defeated Madara so that is a fact.
However, if Tobi is Madara then technically HAshirama didnt really defeat him...he just caused him to retreat.

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Originally Posted by EliteKage

Everyone in the manga knows that Hashirama defeated Madara so that is a fact.
However, if Tobi is Madara then technically HAshirama didnt really defeat him...he just caused him to retreat.

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http://images.encyclopediadramatica....wut_pagoda.jpg You can be defeated without dying just so you know. Either way the 1st still whooped that ass.

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Originally Posted by kuroihikari

Just to play Devil's Advocate, if Tobi is lying about his identity, then anything he said about the past may be lies, too.

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That what I was talking about.