Well....about ichigo getting zangetsu without an asauchi....didn't anyone think that this is exactly why his bankai can't be stolen? It's a thing that makes him all different from the others and this is a feature he shares with kenpachi (the other war potential). Only students at the academy are gien asauchi, but kenpachi already had his sword in shikai when he found yachiru, an back then he was no shinigami nor student.
I bet there is another, hard way of developing one's zanpakuto.
You are missing a very important point here Paulbee, Urahara's involvement....
Originally Posted by paulbee
Question: What are those mouth's reminiscent of?
Answer: As Zero already pointed out. They resemble the accelerated corosion of chains that remain after severing a soul from it's body.
Question: What was the method for forcing/accelerating the corrosion of the chains?
Answer: The huge dark, pit.
Question: What happened to Ichigo and Renji when they started Oetsu's "training"?
Answer: They fell into a huge dark pit
The explanation here is simple, Urahara copied and/or modified Oetsu's method of creating Asauchi. The purpouse of the pit was not, to bring out the shinigami powers. It was to "create" Zangetsu, by creating an Asauchi. Urahara "gave" ichigo an Asauchi, and Ichigo fused with it. So he doesn't have a sealed - regular katana - version of the zanpaktou, and thus, has to go Shikai-mode to materialize the sword in the first place.
It's because he was fused with his Asauchi that Zangetsu now cannot be stolen.
And he fused with the sword because Urahara actualy improved Oetsu's original method.
The only person that [arguably] doesn't fit is Zaraki. The rest (Renji, Rukia, Gin...) Were never shown to possess a zanpaktou while still in regular clothes (i.e. non-shinigami). But Zaraki, when first introduced, already had the scar, and even talked about Yachiru, which implies that he was already very powerful at the time. And probably was a shinigami for a long time.... maybe even a villian, but then he lost his memory. And forgot he was a shinigami and started terrorising rukongai. :D
You all don't get what's gonna happen in the next few chapters,right?
Take in account what Renji and Ichigo are doing right now with that Oetsu guy. He is explaining how he makes zanpaktous and such.
Kenpachi doesn't know his zanpaktou's name.
He is now also in training session with Unahana.
>Kenpachi using for real a zanpaktou might not be a dream after all.
I disagree, putting aside what i wrote in the post above, the whole idea of the Asauchi is giving Shingami "tofu" that they then fill with "flavours". Creating their own unique weapon, from their own unique self. This means that any Zanpaktou has the potential to be equaly strong, and that it's strenght depends on the shingami's traits.
Originally Posted by Yondaime123
Zaraki never has and never will consider his sword anything more than a tool, and his zanpaktou is equaly selfish and sees only it's own power. Furthermore what Oetsu is heavily implying with this ==> (Master, Lover, Teacher, Tool, Pet? It doesn't matter) Is that the only thing that really matters is acknowledging one another. When Ichigo realises that Zangetsu is the source of his power. NOT the other way around. He will master Zangetsu, and Zangetsu will never brake again. But Zaraki would never admit that his sword is the source of his power.
If I'm not mistaken Ichigo had an Asauchi when Rukia lent him her power, it was over sized because he couldn't control his reiatsu. Byakuya broke it and it remained broken even when Ichigo regained his Shinigami power. It's only when he learned the name "Zangetsu" he unlocked his Shikai during the training match with Urahara and after that his Zanpakutou has been in Shikai form ever since.
Where did the Asauchi come from, are you saying that Asauchi appear out of thin Air? Because according to the Chapter, Asauchi are given to new Shinigami, not pulled out of their bellies. And if you're saying that Ichigo used Rukia's Zanpakutou as his Asauchi, then how did Rukia get her Zanpakutou back?
Originally Posted by kiduka
Recall that when Zangetsu appeared, It seems Ichigo pulled it out from his own belly
I think it's more that by looking at a blank sheet, they create a story within themselves, rather than writing and leaving it only on the paper sheet. When they want to show it, only then they write it on the paper and it doesn't matter if that blank sheet is someone's else.
Originally Posted by paulbee
Asauchi is the strongest, because it can become anything. Every Shinigami obtains it at academy, or some other way (finds it, is given it by someone else etc.). In Ichigo's case, Rukia gave him her Asauchi along with her powers, at that point her Shikai was already inside her Shinigami Core (which seems to be as sturdy as Ichigo's since it didn't disappear even when she lost her powers).
When Ichigo's sword broke and Byakuya cut out his power, the sword being linked to Ichigo's Shinigami Core (the same as his Shinigami clothes, lol :P) have simply went inside the core. The moment he regained the link between his soul and Shinigami Core, the Asauchi was naturally there as well, since that's were it was left.
The reason why it seemed that Ichigo pulled his Zan from his belly, is because the life/soul link lies around there, from what I remember :P. Since it links the over all soul with Shinigami core, it's quite logical that the Zan and Shinigami clothes were transfered through it.
In short, Ichigo wouldn't have pulled that sword, if he hadn't obtained it beforehand, through external methods.
He pulled it out from that box in his inner world:
Originally Posted by paulbee
This may be plausible but if this turns out to be true, what does this say about Urahara? The guy just stole all of the Zero Squad techniques? Why, & for what end game? Where's the lasting originality for Urahara's character? Hell even the Hōgyoku resembles the Spirit King to an extent. Next we'll discover that Urahara ripped off Senjumaru Shutara (female Nnoitra) in creating the Keikaigi/Garganta!
Originally Posted by Yellowcardus
Anyways, Ichigo's bankai can certainly be stolen. You simply need a strong enough theif i.e. Juha Bach.
How would this apply to Toshiro Hitsugaya? His Zanpakuto/Powers stalked him in his dreams like Freddy Krugger lol.
Originally Posted by Zero
I'm upset that one of them has to die I don't like the idea of that and it's a waste of another soul society asset, she hasn't been able to show us what she's capable and because zaraki is a fan favourite he is destined to survive the forth coming onslaught despite I feel that yachiru is more of what ss needs someone who can keep a level head and still be able to kill no matter what zaraki learns it will never change he's approach he'll always be a war hungry beast not saying that I don't like him would prefer if he could be taught with neither of them dying